What are your religious views?
Someone asked this question on our Facebook page and it got me wondering - what do my fellow lucid dreamers believe? Please cast your vote and explain in a more detailed reply if you feel like it. It may or may not have anything to do with your experience of lucid dreaming.
I don't intend for this to spark a religious battle - everyone's entitled to their beliefs, as long as you don't hurt other conscious beings in the process. Please let's keep this a friendly and open discussion.
PS I tried to keep the voting options clear and simple but let me know if you want another option and how you would phrase it.
Good question, With all my respect to all atheists, I do believe in a creator, this world is so finely tuned up to be formed By it self, and you can prove by just looking at your self, your hands,feet,eyes,ears,nose,teeth,heart,kidney,blood,brain and most importantly DNA you name them, all that made me to atleast believe in a creator who is greater than us a big bang wouldn't create all this right?
I only follow my church to a curtain point in my life, that's mostly because of my parents. All I know is that when I grow older I am cutting my self from any religion at all. And that's in about when I'm 23 years old
Rebecca I can't pick from your options as none of them is what I believe. Here's what I believe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJemDZcgIZE&feature=related
I am Deeply religious person and trust my life to a higher authority (ALLAH ALMIGHTY). I am a Muslim. I don't think big bang can set the perfect conditions for us so their has to be a GOD who sets the conditions that are suitable for us.... As far as lucid dreaming is concerned i search a lot about lucid dreaming that is it allowed in my religion or not. i didn't find any clear answers about it some say its not allowed, some say its a time wasting topic and some say its allowed. :? I don't know who is right or wrong because most of them are not aware of it. but i am trying it and have found it quite helpful in building a good character.. :o
uogian wrote: I am Deeply religious person and trust my life to a higher authority (ALLAH ALMIGHTY). I am a Muslim. I don't think big bang can set the perfect conditions for us so their has to be a GOD who sets the conditions that are suitable for us.... As far as lucid dreaming is concerned i search a lot about lucid dreaming that is it allowed in my religion or not. i didn't find any clear answers about it some say its not allowed, some say its a time wasting topic and some say its allowed. :? I don't know who is right or wrong because most of them are not aware of it. but i am trying it and have found it quite helpful in building a good character.. :o
Lucid dreaming is neutral as far as any of the five traditional living monotheistic religions are concerned (six if one includes Deism). If one uses lucid dreams to sin, one has actually sinned as disobeying the will of God is disobedience even in a dream, if one uses lucid dreams to resist temptation and submit to God they would be an act of piety. Prayers in dreams and contemplation of the will of God are also uses of lucid dreaming. If one is just using them to play while asleep they would be wrong if done during a religious fast like Ramadan.
I'm a bit between the bottom two options. I largely ignore the proposition of god, and I don't believe in him, but I also recognize that there is no real way for me to tell at this point in time. I don't really think that it would affect me either way, though, because there are very few things that would get me worked up about any deity even if (s)he does exist.
I tend to stick to Pantheistic views, as far as actual 'religion' is concerned. Not exactly a religion, per se, but it is a world view that fits me well, and I'm content to have it and to let everyone else have what they want.
Wolvendeer wrote: I'm a bit between the bottom two options. I largely ignore the proposition of god, and I don't believe in him, but I also recognize that there is no real way for me to tell at this point in time. I don't really think that it would affect me either way, though, because there are very few things that would get me worked up about any deity even if (s)he does exist.
I tend to stick to Pantheistic views, as far as actual 'religion' is concerned. Not exactly a religion, per se, but it is a world view that fits me well, and I'm content to have it and to let everyone else have what they want.
You have hit the nail sir! There are no options for polytheists, pantheists (includes both the major religions of Buddhism and Hinduism) on that poll, nor options for Deists like myself. Does God really wants human toadies as the first option implies or children who love him and righteousness or is he a Santa Claus ever ready to reward you if you just worship him. The first insults God the second option man.
I don't believe in the existence of any gods, and I almost see religious people as being arrogant sometimes, to think that this whole universe was made just so that mankind could enjoy its chaotic and most likely brief existence while sitting on a flying rock called earth in this gaping pit of emptiness that we call space. I do not seek to offend religious people, sometimes I wish I could believe in all of it. It is comforting to think that you will go to a better place after you die. However, I don't believe, therefore I cannot enjoy that comfort. I have to live every day knowing that my expiration creeps closer year by year. And when people are finally deceased and gone, do you know where they really are? They're not. That's where they are. They are NOT. It is a scary thought.
Supporting links- some people may be offended by the first video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ILZAaAMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55h1FO8V_3w
Well only last week did I find out Santa Clause isn't real so... I just dont know!!
On a more serious note im agnostic, I find it hard to define the word belief these days, I guess its more of an intuitive feeling we all have.
At the end of the day I don't care about what you believe in, its how you use your belief that matters. One thing I cant stand is people trying to tell others how to think/live etc.
:)
Jack Reacher wrote: At the end of the day I don't care about what you believe in, its how you use your belief that matters. One thing I cant stand is people trying to tell others how to think/live etc.
Agree
I'm going for the agnostic option. I had a profound and healing lucid dream where I met a deceased relative and had a really insightful and positive interaction. Whilst I don't want to jump to conclusions either way, the experience was very intriguing to say the least and has certainly left me quite open minded.
I have also had a small number of precognitive dreams, a couple of these too coincidental to be, well, coincidence. Whilst this might signify to some that there is more going on that meets the eye, I also consider that maybe this these precog dreams are perhaps merely a natural phenomena that is as yet unknown or accepted by mainstream science. Whilst this demonstrates to me the magnificence and complexity of the dreaming world, this yet again this leaves me on the fence.
At the end of the day, if I were to whole heartedly believe in the divine/afterlife etc, I don't think I would use religion as a tool to explore this area anyway. I would likely see spiritually as the evolution of the soul (in a strange sense quite Darwinian of me I suppose) and likely see no need to envoke a creator. But I am only human, there are many people with interesting NDE stories, and people who claim to have verified previously unknown information received to them in dreams/obes. I find these accounts to be very intriguing :)
Worldenterer1 wrote: However, I don't believe, therefore I cannot enjoy that comfort. I have to live every day knowing that my expiration creeps closer year by year. And when people are finally deceased and gone, do you know where they really are? They're not. That's where they are. They are NOT. It is a scary thought.
I don't find the thought scary at all. Provided I'm not buried in a vault like most people are, I am completely fine with winking out and letting my parts go back to mother nature and scatter to the universe. I actually find the thought as comforting as most religious people find the thought of an afterlife. Now, it would be somewhat annoying to be buried in such a way that my body is of no use to anything, but that won't be my concern once the time comes. In my opinion, whatever you believe, you should be comfortable with your end.
I answered the question in a simple way - do I think there is a divine being looking over us, and I say no. As for other realities, the realm of LD wherever it is and whatever is it to me is another reality. I just struggle with putting religion into it at all
Wolvendeer wrote: I don't find the thought scary at all. Provided I'm not buried in a vault like most people are, I am completely fine with winking out and letting my parts go back to mother nature and scatter to the universe. I actually find the thought as comforting as most religious people find the thought of an afterlife. Now, it would be somewhat annoying to be buried in such a way that my body is of no use to anything, but that won't be my concern once the time comes. In my opinion, whatever you believe, you should be comfortable with your end.
BINGO!^^^
I completely agree with this. And I'm comfortable with ceasing to be too. The idea of being absent from life, from everything is comforting. No more experience, no more suffering, no more concerns, no more "I". Unconsciousness will be something different to experience...ahem...or not to experience. :mrgreen:
So it was before I was born, so it shall be. If the universe wishes to bring me back in a different form, so be it. I'm not fussed. But if I'm brought back, don't expect me to be the same. It won't be this "I" I'm using now. I could be brought up to have different beliefs, different views, different opinions, because, after all, I'd start with the empty mind of a newborn baby. I could be a psycho in a next life. Be chemically imbalanced even! I could even come back as a bloody worm!
Perhaps consciousness is the result of the coming together of certain elements. Perhaps it is like gravity that only tends to get stronger in space the denser and weightier an object gets. Just a force that becomes operational from unconsciousness when the right elements, energies and their different frequencies come together. It could even be something quantum! Perhaps we will never know what death is really like if it means that we never remember a previous life. But this is just theory. Perhaps we are never brought back. If this is so, then for us, everything ceases to exist...even ourselves...absent...wahey!!! 8-)
Why do we exist? I have a suspicion...the universe needs us (conscious beings) to observe it and confirm its existence. If there is no consciousness the universe cannot be said to exist. Our purpose? To name everything we encounter in this universe through language (another thing that we developed). We define, we give meaning, that's our job...we work for the universe...we are an expression of this universe...we are the universe. Without the universe there is no you. We are the universe trying to understand itself. We are the universe wondering why the hell it is.
Deeply philosophical...I know...anyway, if there is anything that a certain historical Buddha has taught us is that he was only a man who realised that we will find peace in acceptance.
:arrow:
flip101 wrote: I only follow my church to a curtain point in my life...
Very nice. I'm guessing your misspelling wasn't intentional, but it's very interesting. I followed a traditional religious belief system until I had what I would call a "curtain point" in my life. That's the point where the curtain went up for me and I saw what I now believe to be the truth.
I think religions tend to overcomplicate what is a fairly simple concept. I believe we are all part of what we might call God, the collective consciousness of the universe. We are all participating in the creation of our world by manifesting the reality we are experiencing. We came here by choice to experience and learn from this reality. The place from where we came doesn't have the challenges necessary for our growth, so we made this place as a school and agreed to the rules that govern this planet.
Life after death is nothing more than a semi-permanent OBE and we will find ourselves in a place that fits our particular beliefs with others that have the same beliefs. We will work together with other conscious beings to create new realities, just like we practice doing every night in our dreams.
Snaggle wrote: There are no options for polytheists, pantheists (includes both the major religions of Buddhism and Hinduism) on that poll, nor options for Deists like myself. Does God really wants human toadies as the first option implies or children who love him and righteousness or is he a Santa Claus ever ready to reward you if you just worship him. The first insults God the second option man.
Please provide specific wording for other desired options. I'll gladly add them.
As for me, I'm an atheist, so no doubt my wording of the poll projects my own interpretations of other religions, rather that people's actual personal views. I did find it rather difficult to narrow it down, and I certainly don't claim any real authoritative knowledge of the many faiths.
I prefer to believe, it's a whole lot simpler than we might think. But then that's not human nature is it. ;)
Wolvendeer wrote: I don't find the thought scary at all. Provided I'm not buried in a vault like most people are, I am completely fine with winking out and letting my parts go back to mother nature and scatter to the universe. I actually find the thought as comforting as most religious people find the thought of an afterlife. Now, it would be somewhat annoying to be buried in such a way that my body is of no use to anything, but that won't be my concern once the time comes. In my opinion, whatever you believe, you should be comfortable with your end.
I agree with this. Though it does present a paradox.... I mean, I'd *like *my body to disintegrate and cease to exist just as my mind has - and that means cremation and scattering in the wind. Rotting in the ground takes too long and is a waste of space, I feel. And besides, I don't want to be dug up by archaeologists in 1,000 years' time. But if I'm dead, I'm dead, so I won't really care. It's just the thought of it, while I'm alive, that makes it matter. And there's the contradiction. I really should have no say in it.
My next question is, if you believe you'll continue to exist as a spirit in the afterlife, why does it matter what happens to your physical body? Does it?
Summerlander wrote: Why do we exist? I have a suspicion...the universe needs us (conscious beings) to observe it and confirm its existence. If there is no consciousness the universe cannot be said to exist. Our purpose? To name everything we encounter in this universe through language (another thing that we developed). We define, we give meaning, that's our job...we work for the universe...we are an expression of this universe...we are the universe. Without the universe there is no you. We are the universe trying to understand itself. We are the universe wondering why the hell it is.
I'd like to ask, if the universe "needs us", how did the universe *decide *to create consciousness... before there was any consciousness...? ;)
And what about the other 99.999999999999999999999r% of the universe outside of Earth? Do you think there is other data out there which could help us reach a decision about consciousness? Is it too presumptuous to make claims about the whole universe, based on our tiny little microcosm of it?
Yes, indeed. How did it make that decision? Perhaps the emergence of consciousness was random. Maybe natural even in the sense that the asymmetry of unconsciousness has to exist because it also has a potential.
Maybe there is an underlying level of reality that causes consciousness to arise like a force of nature when the conditions within a physical system are right. Like magnetism and gravity that become apparent but we don't yet fully understand what is going on there so we use theoretical models to try to explain them.
Consciousness seems to be, to me, the most profound and mysterious. Perhaps we are one idea of the universe looking at itself. An idea that simply evolved (consciously or unconsciously) to the point where it can analyse itself and ask questions.
Somewhere else in the universe, there might be other living "ideas". These ideas might have evolved further to the point of understanding far more than what we do. But then again, if they are far more evolved, why would the universe need us, right (when it has a better perspective somewhere else)? Maybe it likes to remember its "childhood". Perhaps we are a memory inside a living being's mind.
I'm sorry. There is a lot of speculation here. Perhaps everything is just for the sake of being. all is for the sake of play. But you hit the nail on the head, Rebecca: how did it all happen?
Perhaps even non-existence is a state of being from its own perspective. Maybe the afterlife (if there is one) is a realm of ideas with a potential to manifest physically. It could even be our home. Lucid dreaming, despite announcing itself in the physical brain, could be a glimpse of where we are going when we die. A world where there are no rules but the ones we make and believe.
On the other hand, death could mean unconsciousness everyone. If that is the case, why worry. We won't experience. There is no you to feel anything.
Rebecca wrote: I'd like to ask, if the universe "needs us", how did the universe *decide *to create consciousness... before there was any consciousness...? ;)
And what about the other 99.999999999999999999999r% of the universe outside of Earth? Do you think there is other data out there which could help us reach a decision about consciousness? Is it too presumptuous to make claims about the whole universe, based on our tiny little microcosm of it?
Hi Rebecca,
Have you, by chance, read or looked into Tom Campbell's book, "My Big Toe"?
He has a wonderful theory regarding that very question. :)
He posits that everything is "consciousness", and our individual consciousness is just a part of the whole in order to interact with itself with the primary goal of lowering our entropy. It's a really great read and really opens ones mind to the possibilities.
In response to the topic... I'm atheist. I've been projecting (lucid and astrally) for my entire life and I've never seen anything that would allude to a "higher being/power/whatever" out there. I believe that WE are the beings creating our own reality.
Rebecca wrote:
... I mean, I'd *like *my body to disintegrate and cease to exist just as my mind has - and that means cremation and scattering in the wind. Rotting in the ground takes too long and is a waste of space, I feel. And besides, I don't want to be dug up by archaeologists in 1,000 years' time. But if I'm dead, I'm dead, so I won't really care. It's just the thought of it, while I'm alive, that makes it matter. And there's the contradiction. I really should have no say in it.
Rebecca there are plenty of "chunks" in cremation dust that are not going to blow away in the wind. I suggest you do what my family does after cremation- bury the dust at sea.
My next question is, if you believe you'll continue to exist as a spirit in the afterlife, why does it matter what happens to your physical body? Does it?
There are a number of reasons why it matters:
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The ancient Eqyptian/Cretan reason that the double would only exist as long as the body- the reason for mummification.
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The Mazdaic/Jewish/Christian and Moslem belief that one's body will be resurrected to live an eternal life back here in God's new Eden.
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Medical technology might progress to the point where the dead can be brought back to life and completely restored.
Rebecca wrote:
I'd like to ask, if the universe "needs us", how did the universe *decide *to create consciousness... before there was any consciousness...? ;)
And what about the other 99.999999999999999999999r% of the universe outside of Earth? Do you think there is other data out there which could help us reach a decision about consciousness? Is it too presumptuous to make claims about the whole universe, based on our tiny little microcosm of it?
I don't know the answer, but I like to think about it. Here's what I'm wondering: What if consciousness is the only thing that ever existed and entire universe was created by it, but only exists as a virtual universe? That would be pretty inetesting.
Ryan wrote: 3. Medical technology might progress to the point where the dead can be brought back to life and completely restored.
Thanks for the heads-up. I'm definitely going with cremation.
Ryan wrote: Have you, by chance, read or looked into Tom Campbell's book, "My Big Toe"?
He has a wonderful theory regarding that very question. :)
He posits that everything is "consciousness", and our individual consciousness is just a part of the whole in order to interact with itself with the primary goal of lowering our entropy. It's a really great read and really opens ones mind to the possibilities.
No but I will look into it!
This is my current view on the conscious universe theory. I'm making an assumption here as I haven't looked into his specific theory yet, which is naughty of me, but....
....is it the same as the popular belief now that the universe is a thinking entity, that re-orders itself to influence your fate?
At face value, this theory doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps it did once, when I was much more spiritual in my approach, but that didn't really give me any useful answers, only more questions.
Questions like this...
As I see it, consciousness is defined as an identity - a collection of experiences, beliefs, attitudes, and interpretation of sensory input. Anything that can freely receive and process data then willfully act on it is conscious, right? That includes humans and animals, and one day computers.
So at this level of understanding, it seems like a big jump for the entire universe - a vast collection of independent inanimate bodies and conscious beings - to be able to behave willfully as one identity. It feels to me like invoking the idea of an omnipotent god, and then saying (s)he's in all of us.
I realize my logic is reductionist but then again that works pretty well for us in many existing scientific models.
If I were to argue* pro* this theory, I'd say that kidney cells don't know they're part of a kidney, so why should I know I'm part of a super-mega-conscious-being at least 14 billion years old?
But I still have to ask, where is the giant kidney? How can we say it exists.... how did that leap come about?
I do accept that there is MUCH we don't know about the universe... there may be unidentified forces, many more dimensions, and exotic stuff we haven't found yet. So I would not say with 100% certainty that the universe isn't conscious, that would be foolish. But I do believe that this theory is somewhat mystical and that the current data shows no mechanism for it, and I find it unscientific (my core values) to take that leap of faith. But that's just me.
Maybe that's what Tom Campbell's book is about? ;) If you want to elaborate on the mechanism I'm all ears...
Snaggle wrote: Rebecca there are plenty of "chunks" in cremation dust that are not going to blow away in the wind. I suggest you do what my family does after cremation- bury the dust at sea.
You're right. I have romanticized that idea of scattering the ashes.... I sadly know that you get 45 minutes in the cremation chamber and, especially if you're a big person, then whatever chunks are left of your body get dumped in a pile with all the other leftovers. Don't ask me where that goes. I don't wanna know!
im an atheist but if im wrong and "god and heaven and hell exist" then great i was wrong what can i say im human and think about this if "hell" has to do with sins and when you sin alot you go to hell to be "tortured i mean not to be innapropriate but we have all masturbated at one point which is technically a "sin"
I beleave that church is not a brick an mortor thing that time can tear down. It is the world around us. And church is something that we never leave. If you ask me if I beleave in a god. I would have to say, 'no.' I know there is God. Only one. One can not live my life and not know that God is real. I have seen things that the best telescope can not see, which I think is the hubble. I have been places that no car nor plane can get to. The vehicle was the hand of God, himself. I do beleave that the dream world is not at all fantasy. But the world of the soul. If you read the Bible. You will see, that God and his angels use the dreamworld to communicate with us. With exception of two people that have walked this earth. Those are Moses and Jesus himself. Who was God in man form. As for the big bang. That would have been a sight to see. And yes, it had to happen. The words, 'let there be.' Makes it possible.
Does that answer your question about religion, where I am concernd?
Im not usually the guy to do this, but since you did it in another topic I just gotta point it out.
This is how you spell "Believe"
Anyway something that just caught my interest, most people who are certain there is a god talk in the same manner as you do.
That is because God does not talk to just one person. And yes, I do misspell a few words here and there. Not a biggy, you knew what was being said.
Thinking about all things. Just maybe this, the waking world as we know. Maybe this world is the dream world. Maybe this body is something like a bandaide that keeps us grounded in this world.
Did we discover the black hole or did we dream it first...I find a lot of things we dream of before we find it.
As for me, I feel any TOE that revolves around the human race is probably wrong. I feel that life is just part of the grand scheme that is existence.
Christianity is my thing! I really hope to save people. People ask me often, why Christianity? My answer: Even if there is a heaven or hell, I would prefer to choose heaven. You never know. Science does not prove a lot of things.
Rebecca wrote:
Wolvendeer wrote:I don't find the thought scary at all. Provided I'm not buried in a vault like most people are, I am completely fine with winking out and letting my parts go back to mother nature and scatter to the universe. I actually find the thought as comforting as most religious people find the thought of an afterlife. Now, it would be somewhat annoying to be buried in such a way that my body is of no use to anything, but that won't be my concern once the time comes. In my opinion, whatever you believe, you should be comfortable with your end.
I agree with this. Though it does present a paradox.... I mean, I'd *like *my body to disintegrate and cease to exist just as my mind has - and that means cremation and scattering in the wind. Rotting in the ground takes too long and is a waste of space, I feel. And besides, I don't want to be dug up by archaeologists in 1,000 years' time. But if I'm dead, I'm dead, so I won't really care. It's just the thought of it, while I'm alive, that makes it matter. And there's the contradiction. I really should have no say in it.
My next question is, if you believe you'll continue to exist as a spirit in the afterlife, why does it matter what happens to your physical body? Does it?
Still can't shake off the thought of not existing. :?
I think we will always exist but after death with the sense of self or "I" that is pretty much ego and so we will die, not exist in a way that we would know ourself but still exist. I tend to think it will be a little like the state in the void where all sense of self is gone but awareness is still there.
Gary8847 wrote: If you read the Bible. You will see, that God and his angels use the dreamworld to communicate with us.
Genesis 19: 26 But Lot's wife looked back and she turned into a pillar of salt.
Genesis 22: 2 God said, "Take your son, your one and only son Isaac whom you love and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him as a sacrifice on one of the heights I will show you."
Exodus 7: 10-11 When Moses and Aaron came to Pharaoh, they did as the Lord told them. Aaron threw down his staff in front of Pharaoh and his courtiers and it turned into a serpent. At this Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians did the same thing by their spells.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Well, I learned a whole lot from that... :|
Genesis 19: 26 But Lot's wife looked back and she turned into a pillar of salt.
Genesis 22: 2 God said, "Take your son, your one and only son Isaac whom you love and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him as a sacrifice on one of the heights I will show you."
Exodus 7: 10-11 When Moses and Aaron came to Pharaoh, they did as the Lord told them. Aaron threw down his staff in front of Pharaoh and his courtiers and it turned into a serpent. At this Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians did the same thing by their spells.
But why do you only list the bad things? There were reasons for those verses!
1st one: She was supposed to keep his faith by listening, but she did not so therefore the result was not a very happy one.
2nd one: At the end he never kills the son! It says that God stops him!
3rd one: It was meant to save slavery.
No hard feelings, but you should have known that! It's a little bias if you only post the bad things which make it seem like hell :? There are over 100 verses that explain those stories, and they all have different meanings
I don't mean to attAck religion by only exposing bad verses of the bible. I just want people who are 100% sure, that they are "right" about their religion to take a minute and see what kind of hokey and magical story tales are in their book of worship. I am always so annoyed when people just "know" that their religion is correct, that their god exists. They might say to me, "how do you know my god does not exist?" I say back, "I am not saying that your god does not exist, I am simply saying that there is no way for you to know he does. How you ask? Because I don't know if your god exists or not, therefore you don't know, because you do not posess any mental powers that I do not."
Hmm the last sentence.. I can't answer that ^^ But I guess just being in my religion makes me feel safe and secure
I can completely understand the safe feeling that religion would give. Many times, that makes me wish I was. But there is absolutely no way I can believe in any form of an all powerful being, or life after death. Not only because there is no proof supporting claims such as those, but because they are almost impossible to explain how they could work or exist. In my opinion, it all comes down to the fact that people invented religion as a form of controlling murderers and bad people by telling them that they would be rewarded for living a good life. Religion also comforts people when they are faced by death.
I agree on most points, but one thing that trips me up is although we say life after death couldn't even happen in principle, can't you say the same for the existence of the universe? imo existence shouldn't even be possible, the universe shouldn't exist as I dont understand how soemthing can come out of nothing, how time can be infinite etc... yet here we are.
As for intelligent design, I find it hard to believe that God is a kind of entity with a personality. A personality shows biasm, I believe in something that is more like infinity, hard to explain.
Anyway I want to take this topic in a different direction.
Are we God in our dreams? Think about it we basically dreamt up the entire world that you explore in your lucid dream, and you have control over it. Everything in the dream is a part of you, its all you, nothing from the external world is in the dream (Actually this is a grey area, would like to see this discussed). I think in principle we are God of our dreams, even though sometimes it feels we don't have full control, the things we dont control are controlled by another part of our self ( the subconscious)
This is a bit of a stretch but if thats true, could it also be that the entire universe we know is in Gods minds eye, kind of like his dream, and we are all apart of him? Key differences are that we are conscious in Gods dream, and the Dream Characters in our dreams are not conscious ( this is also a grey area I would like tos ee discussed)
Should I make a seperate topic or just keep it here?
keep it here as we can multitask ok
I am in my dreams and can do a lot of stuff ok but even when I create I dont lay out what I want to see. In real life if I build a house or plant a garden I plant it and then create it. In the dream I dont expect to see a house of any type or a garden either as I let the dream build it for me so I could say that I am more (*) I wont even use the world LOL in a dream than in real life.
I can not prove if the or is not a God, true. And I have no special powers to force you to believe anything. The only thing I can say, I do believe. To me, the things that are written within the Bible are real. As for life after death. That line is in front of us all. From time to time, individuals cross that line. And the stories that they bring back have one thing in common. They are not stories of death.
Besides, if you want to consider evolution. There are way too many gaps in that theory for me. The human race has been at the top of the food chain from the get go. Evolution does not explain how. We don't run very fast. Our dogs have to run circles around us to keep up. We don't really have claws to fight with. Fact to a lion or bear, we would just be a smart a%% rump roast. The only way the human race could have gotten to the top of that food chain is. We were positioned there. And the question is, who is powerful enough to do that. Hmmmmmmm....think that would have to be God.
All the opinions below are mine and are not provable facts. I'm still seraching for the truth and that's more important to me than being "right".
Gary8847 wrote: I can not prove if the or is not a God, true.
For me, no one needs to prove the existence of God, I believe in God naturally. But then, we can't really prove the existence of anything here. But my definition of God is the collective consciousness of all living conscious entities including all of us. That's so much bigger than we are indivdually. Our universe as we know it is more difficult for me to "believe in" because its just a creation of our conscious mind. I believe that consciousness is the only thing that "exists" as we think of existence. Everything else is a manifestation of conscious entities.
Gary8847 wrote: As for life after death. That line is in front of us all. From time to time, individuals cross that line. And the stories that they bring back have one thing in common. They are not stories of death.
I also agree there is life after death, but to me this is completely common sense that our consciousness continues, that's much easier to believe than it ending after we lose this body. As far as the common things in Near Death Experiences goes, the vast majority report 2 major differences from Christianity: 1. There is *no judgement *only that you judge yourself based on what you wanted to accomplish in life vs. what you actually did. 2.There is no eternal hell as depicted by most Christians. There certainly are hellish states of existence, but these are a function of what the individual consciousness has created based on the choices they have made and the condition they are in because of those choices. Some indivuals have spent their entire lives creating hellish things, so guess what happens after they die? They do what they know best. Again, it's only common sense. They can get out of these states if they want to, but many choose not to so they can be there for as long as they want.
The near death experiance is just that and like an OBE it is a state that is experianced but not truly lived, yes the death is not lived in the sense that you do not die so we get very close and report the experiance in terms of what we know and what we believe and thats all. I feel this is a little biased and also the reporting is like tasting food in that we always relate a new food to one that we have tasted and and state it as "it tasted like..." so the experiance is tainted and limited to a existing belief system from the start.
As for evolution I thinks its all BS and the big joke is that we are the alien life that we are looking for and our meat bodies are most likely an experiment. We exist in a place and time that we cant understand but attempt to try to explain for our own comfort and security to cater for a flaw in our makeup that is the need to put everything in terms of what we think we know.
Peter wrote: We exist in a place and time that we cant understand but attempt to try to explain for our own comfort and security to cater for a flaw in our makeup that is the need to put everything in terms of what we think we know.
I agree, although I don't think it's flaw in our makeup. It's a function of the fact that we have consciousness.
But the amazing thing to me is that no one really has *any idea * how we got here and where we are going after we leave here. Each one us has a departure date, that we know for sure. If we were sleeping and happen to be thinking about this, we would say, "Wait a minute, I can't remember how I got here, must be a dream." Then of course we would be lucid. But in waking life, we completely accept the fact that we don't know how we got here without questioning our "reality". We are just so sure it's all real, whatever that means, just like are in dreams.
Gary8847 wrote: The only way the human race could have gotten to the top of that food chain is. We were positioned there. And the question is, who is powerful enough to do that. Hmmmmmmm....think that would have to be God.
Just because people do not know how something happened, does not mean that we should come up with outrageous or far-fetched explanations.
lucidinthe sky wrote: I also agree there is life after death, but to me this is completely common sense that our consciousness continues, that's much easier to believe than it ending after we lose this body.
I was hoping that you might be able to help me understand your statement better. I don't see how someone's conscious could exist once their brain has decomposed. All consciousness is the brains interpretarion of signals. No brain means no signals, therefore no consciousness. I am not a brain expert, but that is my own vague idea.
I may be wrong, then and again, that is why I am asking that question about consciousness. I feel like if your idea about consciousness after death is true, than people should have had consciousness before they were born. But they did not, bacause they had no real brain. I feel like the same would apply to death.
a simple question that I cant answer. Does our existance create consiousness and when we die it dies with us or is our body and brain able to accept consiousness and so it populates us while we live and then moves on when we die.
Is it an external energy or force that comes to us and then moves on when we die?