Need Validation that I'm not crazy- Precognition dreams

Since as far back as I can remember I have had dreams where I could see upcoming events in my normal everyday life. Most are mundane things like dreaming that I am standing in my bed room thinking about something and then I start to feel an emotion and then days weeks even months later it happens exactly as I dreamt it would. Same place, same train of thought, same exact emotion. However through my life I have had a few very distinct times where my precognition actually altered or changed my life. Let me start with a little biography so you understand more about me. I grew up in a southern, christian, republican, household. I went to Sunday school every week and read my Bible daily. I don't remember when it started happening but I do remember thinking that I couldn't tell anyone because they would think I was crazy or worse didn't believe in God. The church I grew up at taught that dreaming the future (among other things) was witchcraft and that it didn't actually happen it was just something people did to con others out of their money. So when I started having these dreams, I instinctively kept them to myself; that is until recently. When I was younger, I believed that my precognition dreams were a gift from God and that they would lead me down the path in life that I am supposed to take. Now granted, most of my dreams are about thoughts and feelings and mundane actions I preform others are significantly different in that I can manipulate the present based on what I saw happen in my precog dream, sort of like the old disney show, "That's So Raven". The most significant of these instances was November 14th and 15th 2006 when I was 12. I had the biggest crush on this guy but I knew one of my friends liked him too. I had a dream that I was standing outside the band hall by a certain pole and she came up to me and said, "He said no." I knew that she was talking about the guy that we both had a crush on and I deducted that she had asked him out and he had rejected her. When I awoke from my dream I schemed to recreate this dream so that it would make my chances of dating him greater and get her to stop flirting with him (yes i realize I was a crafty child back then). So at lunch I talked her up to it. She said she would ask but that I had to go wait at the band hall and as I have described before, that is where I was waiting for her so I agreed to this measure. I left the cafeteria and I went and waited by the pole that I remembered standing by in my dream. When she came to me, her answer was exactly what I had envisioned, "He said no." Lying through my teeth I began to console her saying I was sorry and that she could find a better guy but then she stopped me. "He said no to you." I said what? She replied, "I thought you meant to ask him out for you. He said no to dating you." Well obviously I was crushed by this news so later that day in an effort to save face and maybe salvage a friendship and perhaps a hope of dating him, I called him. I explained how that wasn't supposed to happen and that I liked him but thought that she was going to ask him out for herself. Long story short, me and this guy started dating that night and we dated for a year and a half, to this day my longest relationship. After that dream they kind of subsided, when I had them it was mundane things that weren't even worth mentioning. However, recently the activity has been occurring more and more frequently. I believe that my control over my precognitive dreams is strengthening. What I want validation on is, is there anyone that has had a precognitive dream while half awake??? Earlier today, after not sleeping for 24 hours, I passed out on the couch and while I was asleep I started having a precognitive dream that my friend would call me and say something to me. However, while I was having this dream, he actually did call me! So I was dreaming the future mere seconds before it actually happened! At the end of my pre cog dream my friend said something, I honestly don't remember what it was and I wish I did. Shortly thereafter, he actually said what I had just dreamt and to that I replied yea, I know, you just said that. To which he replied, "no I didn't. what are you talking about?" then I, now being fairly awake, explained to him that i was just dreaming about what he would say and that i had anticipated him saying what he said. Basically the whole experience reminded me of the Oracle on the Matrix when she says "Oh and don't worry about the vase." and then Neo breaks it. I want to know if anyone else out there has had an experience like this and if you know how, how do i harness that power to manipulate my dreams like the dream that lead me to dating my ex and this experience here? I don't do anything out of the ordinary to get these dreams, they just happen at random. If there a way to control and manipulate them? Any answers are welcome! Really this whole post is to validate that there are others out there, hopefully more powerful and better able to answer my questions, like myself.

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Nesgirl, you say there is only science and math. Now tell me, how do you know there is no scientifical explanation to this? And she said shes had this all her life... I dont beleive that you can have a coincedence this huge, that many times And also, her question was not whether Precog dreams r real... And btw kailyn I dont think your crazy - you must have a gift for a reason, so use it

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yo, i've had dreams like you described and so have plenty of others so hopefully we aren't just insane. It's always a moment of insignificance and unlike a normal dream it only last's a moment, like i'm getting a peek inside my head months in the future. I don't agree with the stupid theory with probability leading to dreams of the future and just had a thought. I'd just call it a precognition instead of a precognitive dream b/c for me, it's unlike a dream. I only see a moment from my future frozen like a photo where the only thought i can have is whatever i'd be thinking . anyways i wouldnt call them dreams or you crazy

p.s. seems to happen less frequently with age or maybe i've just lost my begginners luck, i would say ask family members about it since my moms side experienced precognition if you want validation ,they could be in the same situation but idk , hopefully u wont foresee urself in a white padded room lulz ;)

Nesgirl is absolutely right. Nearly seven billion people on the planet sleeping and dreaming 24/7 as the Earth spins. Think about the gazillions and gazillions of dreams being generated by all those brains. It is only natural that many will be coincidental with future events and if there was never an individual who experienced these for most of their lives, then it would be really weird.

I'll tell you something which is counterintuitive but absolutely true and gives weight to nesgirl's logic. If the universe is infinite, it is inescapable that, if you go far enough into space, you will find an exact replica of the Earth, with exactly the same people and the exact same course of events. Sounds like too much of a coincidence? Not really. If space-time is infinite, because of nature's constants and the fact that there is only a finite number of ways in which matter can arrange itself (eg. some particles repel, some attract) mathematics dictates that replication is inevitable. If our planet was truly unique in every way then something mighty strange would truly be afoot.

Nesgirl wins this one.

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I personally think because low probability is misunderstood by most people (math is a difficult subject to understand at times), and many don't believe that hitting the number at abysmal odds is even possible. Despite most understanding, math has always existed, meaning probability has always existed in our universe as well. In our universe, the laws of probability have always been set into place. Unexpected events which have very low probability have always happened at one time or another. Those events tend to have much more power than ones that we can predict will happen and when they happen, they can have unexpected rewards or consequences. Because most people don't understand the results and power that can happen with low probability, there can be unexpected theories and superstition associated with it. Like for example if someone wins a lottery or if someone catches a Shiny Pokémon, oftentimes, there will be false accusations that the person might have cheated to obtain such fortune, when in reality they did no such thing.

Exactly. There have been many "black swans" (Taleb's terminology taken from his theory) that have eluded us and taken us by surprise. Improbability doesn't mean impossibility, to put it plainly. Nesgirl's position is irrefutable from where I'm standing. Our Dark Age ignorance is the mother of all superstition which is still extant today. There is another counterintuitive fact about the quantum physics of reality, which I learned from Brian Cox's "The Quantum Universe." But I'll leave it for later. For now let me just say that affirming the authenticity of precognition with great conviction is taking a huge leap of faith. There are more mundane and viable explanations for so-called precognitive dreams hingeing on probability. Occam's razor: they are more likely to be just dreams that happen to PARTIALLY coincide with future events. Even rarer, but with a degree of probability still, are the uncannily accurate ones. But remember: we must take into account pattern-seeking and confirmation bias. (Not to mention lying.):-D

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Summerlander wrote: Exactly. There have been many "black swans" (Taleb's terminology taken from his theory) that have eluded us and taken us by surprise. Improbability doesn't mean impossibility, to put it plainly. Nesgirl's position is irrefutable from where I'm standing. Our Dark Age ignorance is the mother of all superstition which is still extant today. There is another counterintuitive fact about the quantum physics of reality, which I learned from Brian Cox's "The Quantum Universe." But I'll leave it for later. For now let me just say that affirming the authenticity of precognition with great conviction is taking a huge leap of faith. There are more mundane and viable explanations for so-called precognitive dreams hingeing on probability. Occam's razor: they are more likely to be just dreams that happen to PARTIALLY coincide with future events. Even rarer, but with a degree of probability still, are the uncannily accurate ones. But remember: we must take into account pattern-seeking and confirmation bias. (Not to mention lying.):-D

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Sadly there are some people who do forge lottery tickets and Shiny Pokémon out there, so that is true. Either they are attention seekers, sociopaths (the Shiny Pokémon are infected with a virus, and he aims to take down other systems, or it's a trap to lure others in for some reason), or greedy money hogs.

Though if that isn't the case, it is unlikely they are lying about anything. I don't see any other reason why they would lie about something like that if none of the reasons above fit. Because most decent people don't want that kind of attention on them if they beat probability like that. More than often when it first hits, they will suffer an anxiety attack.

I'm definitely not implying that Kaylyn Spears is lying as she is clearly looking for answers and wants to make sure she's not crazy. But she will do well in taking heed of your posts, nesgirl. Looking into maths and probability will give her a sensible perspective and cut out possible hyperbole that she might not even be aware of.

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Hello... I don't think you're crazy, or necessarily bad at Maths...or lying.
I've also experienced dreams of that sort, and so have many ppl on my dad's side of the family (including my dad).
I'm not saying that we're all psychic or any of that - who knows? Maybe it is all simply coincidence. Maybe it's not. The way I see it, it really hasn't been proven definitively one way or another, so to claim with 100% conviction that it's precognition or just a load of bollocks is a matter of faith. Faith in things of a spiritual nature, or faith in Maths and science and nothing else - it's still faith.
So when it comes down to it - you just need to decide what you believe in based on what feels right to you. You know what you experienced, it really doesn't matter if others believe you or your interpretation of the events.
If you feel that you are experiencing precognitive dreams, then I would think the only thing that matters is how you decide to handle it.
The only thing I would suggest is using your powers for good rather than evil! Lol! Seriously, it is a possibility within the realm of possibilities that you had a "gift" (or whatever you'd like to call it). Assuming that's the case, then personally, I wouldn't want to tempt fate and use it in a negative way...know what I mean? As far as what you might do to develop your gift, I would suggest starting off maybe by practicing meditation. I agree with what (someone) said about perhaps finding someone in your family who has the same thing going on, though given what you said about your upbringing, there's a chance that may not work out so well for you - my in-laws match the description, and there's no way in hell I would ever broach the subject with them. ThAt would be proof that I was "full of satan". :/

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nawick wrote: Naw, I'm not out to prove anything to anyone. People can write me off they they want, no big deal. See, I am not trying to change anyone's Faith; I have enough to do just figuring out my reality in the time I have left.

However, on this forum people state their experiences and (one, an person, the reader) can believe them or not. I believe people are innocent until proven guilty, so the burden of proof falls on the people who are saying they are lying.

I don't care if people believe the truth or not. If they choose to reject the synergy of this vast existence, that only makes me sad. But denial is also their right. It can even be healthy, that's why there is memory repression.

But people should be allowed to reveal what happens to them without worrying about criticism or getting ganged up on. That's what Forums are for.

I never said you were lying. I never said that. And from what you've said in your posts in some of the other topics, you've had some probability Lucid Dreams of your own as well, I get that and understand that, while you and other users may not. Probability Lucid Dreams don't just have to be future based, they can be about a past event as well. I also get that you might have a hard time understanding how probability works. Many people who don't understand math or struggle at that subject might have a hard time understanding the subject. If that is the case, I can certainly understand why you can't understand what is going on. If you honestly believe it is something else, however, I'll give you a fighting chance: With your belief system, you should have no problem getting evidence of any of your dream experiences on the full spectrum camera (because that camera reveals any force or matter invisible to the naked eye, even probability, they actually use that camera for geological measuring, revealing invisible forces for security measures, and Multimedia) and showing it to all of us through some YouTube videos. The last user got mad at my request and left the forum. If you think you have the guts to do this, why don't you try doing this? Although there are certain beliefs I will never believe in even with evidence, because I am very afraid of them.

It has always been puzzling to me that many fundamentalist Christians believe that anyone with psychic/intuitive abilities is practicing witch craft, when the Bible has numerous accounts of well respected individuals who had psychic and healing abilities, with the prime example being Jesus.

I get the impression that sometimes you want to use your psychic abilities in order to influence other people to do things which are to your advantage, maybe trying to fiddle with their free will. This can be dangerous ground. There is the old saying, "What goes around, comes around." If you push the boundary of ethical behavior when using psychic abilities, you open yourself up to unpredictable negative consequences.

Here are some of my favorite resources for wise advice about developing psychic abilities.

• Book - "Your Sixth Sense" - by Belleruth Naparstek Belleruth is a psychotherapist who is also a leader in the field of treatment of PTSD, especially using guided imagery. She wrote the very insightful book - "Invisible Heroes"

• Also - YouTube videos - Belleruth Naparstek on PTSD - 7 episodes

• Book - "Second Sight" - by Judith Orloff The author is a psychiatrist who struggled to come to terms with her own psychic abilities. She has another popular book - "Emotional Freedom", and she has YouTube videos, and also has a very informative website, about dealing with emotions and developing intuitive abilities. -

• drjudithorloff.com

jasmine2 wrote: It has always been puzzling to me that many fundamentalist Christians believe that anyone with psychic/intuitive abilities is practicing witch craft, when the Bible has numerous accounts of well respected individuals who had psychic and healing abilities, with the prime example being Jesus.

I get the impression that sometimes you want to use your psychic abilities in order to influence other people to do things which are to your advantage, maybe trying to fiddle with their free will. This can be dangerous ground. There is the old saying, "What goes around, comes around." If you push the boundary of ethical behavior when using psychic abilities, you open yourself up to unpredictable negative consequences.

Here are some of my favorite resources for wise advice about developing psychic abilities.

• Book - "Your Sixth Sense" - by Belleruth Naparstek Belleruth is a psychotherapist who is also a leader in the field of treatment of PTSD, especially using guided imagery. She wrote the very insightful book - "Invisible Heroes"

• Also - YouTube videos - Belleruth Naparstek on PTSD - 7 episodes

• Book - "Second Sight" - by Judith Orloff The author is a psychiatrist who struggled to come to terms with her own psychic abilities. She has another popular book - "Emotional Freedom", and she has YouTube videos, and also has a very informative website, about dealing with emotions and developing intuitive abilities. -

• drjudithorloff.com

Sorry to break it to you, but there is no such thing as "psychic abilities". If you have a Lucid Dream/dream that happens to link to the past, present, or future, it is a probability Lucid Dream. In other words, it happens because of math, not because of you. Oh, and if you have a probability luck streak, you aren't psychic, you are just having a probability luck streak. Trust me, those end after a while for everyone. Here take a look at this if you don't believe me: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BornLucky (it may seem ridiculous to have that kind of luck, but I once saw a luck streak like that happen to someone, ticked everyone off when that person played against them at cards for a while, but like all luck streaks, it eventually ended)

I really need to make a topic or lecture on probability Lucid Dreams/dreams, so some of the newbies on here understand what a probability Lucid Dream is.

HAGART wrote: I'll jump in the fray and await a backlashing.

If it's all probability, then isn't it probable, given the billions of people on this planet, that some would have a precognitive dream? Even a one in a billion chance, means some have. There's nothing mystical or divine about it, it's just probability right. ;)

I have no faith, and I'm on no jury here, but if "precognition in dreams is more likely to be a coincidental illusion", doesn't that already admit that it happens from time to time, only with a low probability?

Even if it was all down to math, and probability, and coincidence than wouldn't those rare, seldom instance be prognitive by definition.

Instead of sweeping it all under the rug, we should be examining it with a magnifying glass. It may not be answered with math and physics, but instead with psychology, but there is still an answer somewhere, and many more questions yet to be answered.

You beat me to making this point THX BTW no respect for logic from youtube, it's like a wiki edited by mADmen

And Hagart's argument is flawed as his conclusion does not follow from the stated premise. Coincidental illusion does not equate with precognition. An illusion is something that has a misleading appearance. In this case, it may appear to be precognition but it isn't. Such coincidences are probable and do happen. Real precognition, on the other hand, is a dubious affair. It has never been demonstrated, there is no known physical mechanism behind such hypothesis, and it most certainly never really happens. Cock and bull! :-D

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Summerlander wrote: And Hagart's argument is flawed as his conclusion does not follow from the stated premise. Coincidental illusion does not equate with precognition. An illusion is something that has a misleading appearance. In this case, it may appear to be precognition but it isn't. Such coincidences are probable and do happen. Real precognition, on the other hand, is a dubious affair. It has never been demonstrated, there is no known physical mechanism behind such hypothesis, and it most certainly never really happens. Cock and bull! :-D

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I bet you as well believe in Probability luck streaks like I do. When someone hits a target more than once in a row, an abnormal amount of times, it is considered a luck streak. However it is no more than probability taking place. As I said in the past, improbable =/= impossible so in fact probability luck streaks are in fact possible in this universe. This is why in rare cases people do in fact experience such phenomenon. Or happen to hit a target in front of an audience (like it said on the main website). We cannot predict how or what probability will do, and unlike everything else, probability isn't our doing at all, and we cannot predict or control the outcome of when exactly probability will or will not strike (even if that is what we are thinking). It is the responsibility of the laws of math and the laws of the universe that are taking place. There is no such thing as precognition. It is all probability. And if it happens to land exactly right, we will have an experience with hitting probability. And if it doesn't, we won't. That is just how the laws of math work.

nesgirl wrote: If you have a Lucid Dream/dream that happens to link to the past, present, or future, it is a probability Lucid Dream. In other words, it happens because of math, not because of you.

This isn't against nesgirl, I was just using the quote as a talking point, and it's my attempt at a rebuttal to Summerlander as well.

I think all of reality can never be rationalized without mathematics and it's the only fundamental truth. The whole universe. And that even includes myself because I am composed of the very essence as well. IT'S ALL MATH. A concept in our minds, which is also composed of the universe.

There are also some very rational people, like myself, who entertain the notion that time is an illusion and that all past and future events co-exist simultaneously. And all quantum mechanics are probable.

I don't have a doctorate, or a P.H.D. and have no evidence from books to support my claim. This is just food for thought from some guy at a computer shooting the breeze for fun.

Perhaps we need to think outside the box, and realize all of reality wasn't what we thought it was, and we were all closed minded. We need to jump out and wake up, like a Jack-In-The-Box.... SURPRISE!

If it's true that we have no free will, and are just a complex product of Newton's Cradle, our whole bodies and minds being predictive, just bumbling around like moist robots, than wouldn't precognition be the norm?

The fact that it isn't is because we are blind and sleep walking though life. Perhaps it takes an altered state of consciousness to tap into a greater wealth of knowledge of pure math and probability, without preconceived ideas, desires, notions, and emotions to get it.

I myself haven't had a precognitive dream, and I'm just playing the role of Devil's Advocate for the purpose of a good discussion. I'm using probability and math as the very counterpoint to turn your arguments around and flip it inside out.

If I'm wrong, than it means we really do have free will after all. I don't see how we can have both, and it's a contradiction to me.

This is a teleological argument...

We have no free will and we can make predictions about the future based on what we know at present and observation. But prediction is not the same as precognition. Science does a lot of the former. Predictions can be wrong too (they are not exactly seeing into the future) and theories can be revised.

We experience states of mind in a universe that is deterministic. Our bodies are merely biological armours for our genes - armours that have evolved to adapt to the environment. But evolution is blind and doesn't have a particular aim in the future. It cannot predict what's going to happen and how living organisms will change. Evolution is merely a gradual change brought about by natural pressures. It can make irreversible mistakes and biologists can think of ways in which nature could have done better.

So, the fact that we do NOT have free will does not necessarily demand the ability of precognition. If the universe at present was a living thing and could see into the future (and cared about the Earth) it would be able to see that alien invaders will "terraform" the planet by turning the atmosphere poisonous to all earthly life. Then it would do everything in its power to evolutionarily help all species so that they could survive the poison.

But evolution does not work like this. Natural selection does not prepare organisms for what's to come. There is no entelechy. The fact that the majority of the species that have existed on Earth have gone extinct is a testament to this. The first falling domino is clueless about the havoc it will wreak ahead of it.

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I understand what you are saying, mate, but even the human brain is too limited compared to the universe and all its uncertainties. I can assure you I am not shittin' ya! :-D

Cock-and-bull ideas aside, let me tell you about organisms in nature using unpredictable time in evolutionarily stable strategies in order to get ahead of competitors and survive. Unpredictability is a good weapon to use in wars of attrition.

If your rivals don't know how long you are willing to persist when persuing a goal, bearing in mind that giving up can also be beneficial in conserving energy, you are at an advantage. Until they suss out your rhythms. If whisker-flickering, for instance, is a sign that an animal is about to retreat, there would be a very simple winning strategy: if the opponent's whiskers flicker, wait a little while longer (regardless of your previous plans to give up earlier) and then continued to persue the goal unhindered. You will reap the benefits. I hope you know what I'm talking about.

The brain does not have everything sussed out. We know very little about the universe (even the local observable one which is only a tiny portion). Quantum theory works but has many interpretations - and there is an uncertainty principle. Computers can calculate way faster than our best minds. The brain cannot even be trusted to store information and its memory capacity is terrible. Every memory is a reconstruction of perceived events and a potential confabulation.

The brain is phenomenal but it is still a poor tool - even at perceiving the objective world. John Locke had a point.

Edit: Hagart, where did your post go? LOL!

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Sorry about that.... I thought I should think more before I post, but I saved it and can paste it.

I was expecting a good argument, Summerlander. But you were just ranting!

How would I describe what you just replied... how do I put it..... oh yea...

Summerlander wrote: Cock and bull! :-D

I'm just messing with ya ;) I love a good debate sometimes, and I know you do to, and just being argumentative and using your own quote back at you for fun. :D I must admit I like the, word "teleology", and had to look that up, and explains many debates here on this forum. That does explain my side, but it still doesn't mean it's absurd. You missed the mark, and didn't persuade me at all. I'm extremely open minded and really want someone to prove me wrong. Or even right for that matter.

If we have no free will (and that's my stand point to at the moment) then isn't is possible for a giant super computer to predict our every move? What else is comparable to that? The brain of course!

So it's not unfathomable that we can predict the future to some extent?

I hope my ideas resonate more than my wording, but isn't there at least a little bit of truth to what I'm saying? If not, I can take it, and it's all just words, and concepts and nothing is personal. 8-) You can slam a few jokes at me too if it's in good taste, because I admit I did the same!

But if I hear a definite answer from anyone I will change my mind at a heartbeat!

EDIT: What I wanted to condense it down to was that you are right about it being all teleological. And many debates on this forum are. I was going to re-phrase it in two lines:

You were ranting. But I was rambling. ;)

I'll pick this up again when I'm back online. I'm not getting off that easy am I.... :D

Summerlander wrote: ...organisms in nature using unpredictable time in evolutionarily stable strategies in order to get ahead of competitors and survive. Unpredictability is a good weapon...

You have a very good point. It made me think of something. All of life on Earth and the whole ecosystem is based on predators and prey. After millions, billions of years, none of the prey have evolved to predict their predator's exact moves before they happen. Why is that? You'd think after a while one would, and if it did, it certainly would not die off. It would eventually be the only being left and end up eating themselves. In an orderly manner if they were intelligent enough to prolong their species and evolve to anywhere close to a human's, although meager, level of self-awareness and intelligence. I don't even know if that is possible either and sounds far-fetched.

So I agree. Evolution has kept us stupid. At best we can only predict general behavior, not exact movement.

But what if, we have no predators anymore? What will occupy our mind after that? What will fill that void of potential that was once pre-occupied? Maybe there is room to use our minds as a super-computer to it's fullest potential that we have never been granted before, and just don't realize it. Then we can naturally predict things with much more accuracy! Not just general behavior, but more exact movements. And I'm not even talking about 20 years in the future, but just 3 seconds. Is it not possible? Does it defy physics? It's already feasible to predict the weather. Why isn't the whole universe, and us, part of the same machine, flowing in predictable ways?

When in sleep, without any other things to pre-occupy us, perhaps a precognitive dream does not defy any laws of physics, as long as we know the present data.

I'm just rambling again, and even I can see some holes in this, but felt like saying something. I expect a ranting, to refute my admitted rambling. :mrgreen:

I expect a ranting, to refute my admitted rambling. :mrgreen:

For me, Mankind is asleep, but can wake up. 1957 I got a book out of the library: P.D. Ouspensky The Fourth Way, based on the teaching of G.I.Gurdjieff. I managed from time to time to wake up, but otherwise sleep along with most of the rest of us. For me I do knew that I am asleep, and as long as I live I will try as often as I remember to be more awake. I am tolerant of other peoples point of view, but don't push it down my throat. "IN MY OPINION" It is after all our opinion we are voicing, which we acquired one way or the other. I enjoy our website. :)

There are many circumstantial factors to be considered in staying ahead of your opponent in an arms race. Sometimes a little luck is involved when a predator successfully delivers a coup de grace to its prey. Cheetahs, for instance, developed speed in order to hunt and escape larger predators. But antelopes and hares also have an evolutionary propensity for speed as a result of natural selection. The fastest prey tend to survive and propagate their genes. As you can see, they don't consciously develop a speed strategy. What we observe has a Darwinian explanation.

This phenomenon arises simply because of environmental pressures and the consequential survival of the species. Sometimes the best thing to do is to adopt a surreptitious method of catching prey. Take them by surprise! If prey are too absorbed in the act of grazing, their guard will be minimal. Predators soon learn that heads down on the grass mean easy meals. They are the best times to hunt.

However, mutations can occur in prey which may cause some to be more erratic with their timing. These "mutants" would go on to propagate their genes and their broods would already be one step ahead of the enemy in the tactic of evasion. This could ensure their survival for some time until predators finally evolve counteraction. Cycles like these can last for millions of years until one side goes extinct.

In our case, evolution hasn't favoured us as much as it could. In fact, homo sapiens came very close to extinction once. But beneficial discoveries were made, we learned a few things (like fire warding off most animals), and managed to remain extant. Intelligence and self-awareness aren't universal prerequisites for survival though. What I mean to say is that such traits aren't deliberately sought by evolution. As for our predators, we don't really have any that poses an immediate or significant threat to our ecological niche other than ourselves! Nations battle one another; civilised society worries about criminals and sociopaths; humankind constantly fights to contain or prevent outbreaks in order to avoid pandemics.

Accurately predicting events comes with the kind of foreknowledge begotten by observation and the scientific study of reality. The scientific method is already what we developed in order to make predictions and acquire an idea, however slight at present, of how the universe works. But remember: predictability isn't precognition. From what we observe on Earth today, we could predict that on the 25th December 3000, Alaska will see a sunny day. But if in ten years time we detect an asteroid due to collide with our planet the year before (2999), creating untold destruction and disrupting the entire meteoric system, you can kiss that predicted Alaskan sunshine goodbye.

And then we'd be forced to devise a new prognosis: the asteroidal impact portends the darkening of our skies and the annihilation of earthly life. (And no amount of evolution could have prepared any organism from such catastrophe or any type of nuclear assault for that matter.)

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You went off tangent again there Summerlander, but it's a good read and this is just a fun talk.

Summerlander wrote: predictability isn't precognition

I agree, and that's where I went astray. For prediction to work we need current data to extrapolate. Precognition, on the other hand, is knowing something without ever having knowledge of it before in the first place. There's a big difference, and I was changing the definition.

I noticed another problem with my reasoning. I am not trying to prove precognition exists, but merely trying to point out that it can't be ruled out completely. Science is not a set of concrete facts, but a lense we use to explain reality in a logical manner. The reality was always there to begin with, before we ever even saw it, and everyone agrees that there is still much unknown.

So anyone can use what we know thus far, after careful study through the magnifying glass of science, to base ideas on and reach conclusions. Yet I can simply say, there is still more yet to be seen. That's the problem. Both sides are right.

With my logic, I can tell you that given the magnitude of space, that another planet supports life, and one such species out there in reality is akin to a mono-horned, Equus Ferus! Am I wrong?... No. But I'm not right either! ;)

Stop fucking with my mind! :-D

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Kailyn.Spears wrote: Since as far back as I can remember I have had dreams where I could see upcoming events in my normal everyday life. Most are mundane things like dreaming that I am standing in my bed room thinking about something and then I start to feel an emotion and then days weeks even months later it happens exactly as I dreamt it would. Same place, same train of thought, same exact emotion. However through my life I have had a few very distinct times where my precognition actually altered or changed my life. Let me start with a little biography so you understand more about me. I grew up in a southern, christian, republican, household. I went to Sunday school every week and read my Bible daily. I don't remember when it started happening but I do remember thinking that I couldn't tell anyone because they would think I was crazy or worse didn't believe in God. The church I grew up at taught that dreaming the future (among other things) was witchcraft and that it didn't actually happen it was just something people did to con others out of their money. So when I started having these dreams, I instinctively kept them to myself; that is until recently. When I was younger, I believed that my precognition dreams were a gift from God and that they would lead me down the path in life that I am supposed to take. Now granted, most of my dreams are about thoughts and feelings and mundane actions I preform others are significantly different in that I can manipulate the present based on what I saw happen in my precog dream, sort of like the old disney show, "That's So Raven". The most significant of these instances was November 14th and 15th 2006 when I was 12. I had the biggest crush on this guy but I knew one of my friends liked him too. I had a dream that I was standing outside the band hall by a certain pole and she came up to me and said, "He said no." I knew that she was talking about the guy that we both had a crush on and I deducted that she had asked him out and he had rejected her. When I awoke from my dream I schemed to recreate this dream so that it would make my chances of dating him greater and get her to stop flirting with him (yes i realize I was a crafty child back then). So at lunch I talked her up to it. She said she would ask but that I had to go wait at the band hall and as I have described before, that is where I was waiting for her so I agreed to this measure. I left the cafeteria and I went and waited by the pole that I remembered standing by in my dream. When she came to me, her answer was exactly what I had envisioned, "He said no." Lying through my teeth I began to console her saying I was sorry and that she could find a better guy but then she stopped me. "He said no to you." I said what? She replied, "I thought you meant to ask him out for you. He said no to dating you." Well obviously I was crushed by this news so later that day in an effort to save face and maybe salvage a friendship and perhaps a hope of dating him, I called him. I explained how that wasn't supposed to happen and that I liked him but thought that she was going to ask him out for herself. Long story short, me and this guy started dating that night and we dated for a year and a half, to this day my longest relationship. After that dream they kind of subsided, when I had them it was mundane things that weren't even worth mentioning. However, recently the activity has been occurring more and more frequently. I believe that my control over my precognitive dreams is strengthening. What I want validation on is, is there anyone that has had a precognitive dream while half awake??? Earlier today, after not sleeping for 24 hours, I passed out on the couch and while I was asleep I started having a precognitive dream that my friend would call me and say something to me. However, while I was having this dream, he actually did call me! So I was dreaming the future mere seconds before it actually happened! At the end of my pre cog dream my friend said something, I honestly don't remember what it was and I wish I did. Shortly thereafter, he actually said what I had just dreamt and to that I replied yea, I know, you just said that. To which he replied, "no I didn't. what are you talking about?" then I, now being fairly awake, explained to him that i was just dreaming about what he would say and that i had anticipated him saying what he said. Basically the whole experience reminded me of the Oracle on the Matrix when she says "Oh and don't worry about the vase." and then Neo breaks it. I want to know if anyone else out there has had an experience like this and if you know how, how do i harness that power to manipulate my dreams like the dream that lead me to dating my ex and this experience here? I don't do anything out of the ordinary to get these dreams, they just happen at random. If there a way to control and manipulate them? Any answers are welcome! Really this whole post is to validate that there are others out there, hopefully more powerful and better able to answer my questions, like myself.

That's awesome you had those experiences! I've had so many of those experiences that I couldn't even count, I wish there were more people to talk to about those things but most people I know don't understand them and think it's crazy. Also they tend to happen with situations that don't seem to have much significance. One example was a few months ago a family friend was looking for apartments. I knew she was looking but I wasn't expecting her to move for a few months. About a few weeks after she told me she was looking I had this random dream in the morning; in it I saw her standing in a new apartment full of boxes, talking to someone helping her unpack. When I woke up I woke up to a text message, "coincidentally" it was her texting me how she was happy that that morning she finally found an apartment to move into

One example of a precognition that did had some significance was when I was driving, there were no other cars on the road. In my mind's eye I saw a car zoom through a stoplight. I tried to ignore it but it kept repeating through my mind so dramatically that I slowed way down to about 10 miles under the speed limit. No less than a few minutes after I slowed, a car came speeding through the stop sign at the intersection I was passing. If I hadn't slowed down as much as I did before I got to that intersection that car could have easily hit me.

It is frustrating at times because besides the one with the car, most of the precognitions I get whether through a dream or while I'm awake don't seem to have any importance behind them, and they always come at random. So unfortunately I don't have any advice on how to increase them or control them in any way because I'm still trying to figure out that myself. I just thought I would share a few of my experiences with you because I've been experiencing something similar!

Thank you, nessa11 for ignoring our banter and getting back to the original post. I can't say I've had precognitive dreams before, but have had some Deja Vu moments, and two of them, after I started to lucid dream frequently, gave me an overwhelming feeling that I had dreamed it before. That was two years ago, and only twice, and it was nothing majorly life changing; Just a strong feeling. I don't know the reason, but it shouldn't be hidden, and unspoken, and swept under the rug in fear of those that will call you, or me, crazy.

Even Robert Waggoner, a respected lucid dreamer and published author has had two precognitive moments in his life that I know of. (I never read his books, but saw an interview. I'm a pretty good judge of character and I don't think he's lying.)

Thanks for sharing your story and personal experiences. If we want to explain possible reasons for it and theories, we should all start a new topic.

I had a thread where I posted several OOBEs that seemed to show ESP. Must look for it... 8-)

Summerlander wrote: I had a thread where I posted several OOBEs that seemed to show ESP. Must look for it... 8-)

I have probability Lucid Dreams myself, most often through my Dream Body controlled WILDs. However I don't talk about them much, as I've gotten into way too much trouble over them (not here), and even got kicked out of clubs for them (they aren't offensive, it's just superstition)

HAGART wrote: I don't know the reason, but it shouldn't be hidden, and unspoken, and swept under the rug in fear of those that will call you, or me, crazy.

You won't get in trouble or kicked out of our club here, nesgirl. We all have wild ideas! And unexplainable, wild experiences ;) (pun intended)

Why do they happen? I don't know, and we all have a few wild theories. (Can't help myself :mrgreen: )

It's long overdue and I will start a new thread, simply entitled, "Theories and Explanations of the Paranormal". (Or something like that. You'll see it soon, and will be a great place to challenge each others ideas in a friendly, constructive manner.)

EDIT: I called it. "Is there 'normal' in the 'paranormal'?" Should be fun and I try and keep things positive, jovial, and yet, constructive. Despite my humour, I'm still serious about this stuff.

Probability is the right word, nesgirl. I agree with you on that one. ;)

Summerlander wrote: Probability is the right word, nesgirl. I agree with you on that one. ;)

I actually made a post back in one of the science threads that fully explains my theory on how Lucid Dream probability works and why it happens. I even named all 4 forms of Lucid Dream probability that I have ever heard of: Past Probability, Present Probability, Future Probability, and Idea Collision Probability (2+ users coming up with the same idea or words). Call the form of probability whatever you want, I still use the same term for it. Dream/Lucid Dream Probability. Oh and here's my little theory on Lucid Dream Probability http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15172 (the post on the very bottom of the page)