Is there 'Normal' in 'Paranormal' ?
Nobody can doubt that many people report precognitive dreams, dream sharing, and some even channel other-worldly beings, and others claim to get probed by aliens. There are some that attest that strange creatures exist and are worth our attention like Big Foot, Chupacabra, Loch Ness, and other cryptids that should not be, like the Kardashian. Some even claim to see other beings in their sleep and get visits from reptilian demons... no, not a Kardashian... I'm being serious! Many people claim such things, and are adamant about it.
Many air plane pilots witness U.F.O.'s, but are unable to share their stories due to fear of ridicule and losing their jobs. Commercial pilots get psychologically evaluated all the time for good reason, and they will not speak of it for fear of losing their job, and I understand why.
But what is a U.F.O? It's not an alien. It's just a flying object that isn't identified yet. After one figures it out, it's simply an F.O. Maybe there is 'Normal' in the 'Paranormal' after all if we can explain it.
Keep an open, yet logical mind, and let's see if we can have a good, constructive discussion as we challenge each others beliefs. Accept the fact that someone in this world experienced it, don't ridicule or call them a liar, but then try and explain it to the best or your ability.
I started this thread to try and find answers, whatever they are, and I am always open minded. I think everything has an answer somehow even if it means bending the rules of reality as we know it. All ideas are accepted and this should be a fun talk.
Just don't speak of a Kardashian for their popularity and success is a mystery nobody will ever solve! Everything else should be easy! :D
I'll bring up something more specific. I am intrigued by Darryl Anka and his channeling of a 'being', named Bashar. Is it an actual multi-dimensional alien, or is he just tapping into a split personality of his 'higher self', or "over-seeing subconscious self", if you will? (Look it up if you don't know him).
I've seen him as a channeler and as himself, and I must say, nobody is that good of an actor, not even a Kardashian or Oscar Award hoarder Meryl Streep! So something is happening, but I don't know what.
I have some theories and let's get this ball rolling. Feel free to present your own unexplained mysteries, for everyone to take a stab at.
Possibilities include: Dream Sharing Precognition Spirits, Fairies, Angels, Demons, And Other Entities Recalling Past Lives Near Death Experiences Channeling Remote Viewing etc...
Aliens- My own thoughts have always been that there is a connection between dreams and cognitive abilities. Look at the animals we know dream, they are all relatively social in nature and at the higher level of cognitive mental abilities. So if I was a smart alien who wanted to track other species development I might do so by monitoring their dreaming abilities. One of the things I've done since long ago was become non corporeal in my dreams and fly out into space. 1st As they say we can't be alone and if we are what a huge waste of space. :roll: 2nd If you wanted to travel then possibly the easies way to exceed the speed of light is to travel as thought energy. It very likely is not restricted by photonic limitations. 3rd If you believe in evolution then what more of an ultimate form could there be than pure thought energy. A strong enough mind might be able to transfer between physical mater and energy states like water goes from ice into a vapor thru sublimation.
This is all in theory of course. ;)
HAGART wrote: I'll bring up something more specific. I am intrigued by Darryl Anka and his channeling of a 'being', named Bashar. Is it an actual multi-dimensional alien, or is he just tapping into a split personality of his 'higher self', or "over-seeing subconscious self", if you will? (Look it up if you don't know him).
I've seen him as a channeler and as himself, and I must say, nobody is that good of an actor, not even a Kardashian or Oscar Award hoarder Meryl Streep! So something is happening, but I don't know what.
I have some theories and let's get this ball rolling. Feel free to present your own unexplained mysteries, for everyone to take a stab at.
Possibilities include: Dream Sharing Precognition Spirit Entities etc.
Firstly, Haggart, Ufology and Cryptozoology are not "paranormal'.
I've watched several mediums and I agree with H. Houdini - all the ones I've seen are frauds. When a youth my father took me around to see all the travelling preachers - their acting ability was on a par with Anka's and they mixed stage magic into their routines [claiming they were miracles]. Anka shows obvious signs he's not hosting any alien. He as Bashar has a heavy American accent with American intonation of it's sentences. He like a lot of liars keeps his eyes closed throughout his routine or they look away when they're actually lying e.g. Ted Bundy was this sort of liar. His closed eyes mean that he also does not need to act at all during his routine.
I do have to agree with the fraud thing, as many people will do just about anything to make money.
I really think some events are in fact possible, but like I mentioned in that Lucid Dream thread, they are all probability based. In other words any supposed random event that can't be explained that happens to a person is in fact math working its mysterious force in the universe. Let's face it, we face events with low probability that hit us every once in a while, be it a sudden random occurrence in nature, winning a contest/lottery, or even matching 7s every once in a while at the casinos. I have reason to believe that in fact that there was in fact a very low probability that the big bang would have happened out of nothing, yet what happened. There was a low probability that life would begin asexually on our planet, however look at what happened. If low probability does in fact have enough force to cause random occurrences that have a huge amount of influence over us, then why can't low probability exist in other forms? This does in fact include dreams and Lucid Dreams. In fact just because there is a low percentage of probability being hit doesn't mean that it is impossible, and also doesn't mean that probability cannot be hit more than once in a row. Because probability is based on a chance, the percentage isn't important, as you don't know if it is going to hit or not. It also doesn't stop probability from being hit more than once in a row, as probability is very random in that sense. In fact, despite how very rare this is, and it is usually only depicted on TV, something like this is in fact possible because with chance, you never can predict what will happen: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BornLucky And yes, I've had several encounters with probability and hit probability myself, not just in Lucid Dreams. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't have caught some Shiny Pokémon in my Pokémon games (chance is 1 in 8,192 of even finding one), as there in fact many players out there who have never encountered a Shiny Pokémon.
I don't think channeling has anything to do with probability at all. However, when someone is making a profit with their 'miracle', that is always a big red flag. Being a lying actor is a much more plausible, and valid reason.
There is another channeller, Andrew Bayuk who claims to channel an alien named, Elan. Elan is almost identical to Bashar in his/her back story, and speaking style. These alien channellers claim that the alien uses their own English vocabulary and accent to speak through the person. Both their cadences are almost identical.
So the possibilities include: Alien races exist on a different dimensional 'wave length' and communicate through people who are in the right 'frequency'. (That doesn't defy physics in my opinion) Every human has a split personality we can all tap into which is an identical 'higher self' we all have within us. Kind of like the Jungian, collective unconscious. They are lying 'miracle men' who have collaborated their stories and/or mimic each others style for profit and fame. No matter what the reason though, I find these two interesting, and maybe I'm an alien too because I relate a lot to what they speak of! :mrgreen: (<-- Green Alien Face)
I often wonder if dream sharing is possible.. too many contradictions go into that answer though. I think its not although I want to believe it is possible.
HAGART wrote: I don't think channeling has anything to do with probability at all. However, when someone is making a profit with their 'miracle', that is always a big red flag. Being a lying actor is a much more plausible, and valid reason.
I wasn't referring to channeling. I was referring to certain events that happen. Would you pay someone to get all 7s on a slot machine, even if they managed to accomplish that?? Thing is if you manage to hit probability, you shouldn't be asking for anything for it. The reason being probability isn't your doing, it is a force in our universe in effect due to mathematics. Most are lying. On the other hand, there are a few people who I could consider the "Born Lucky" ones where they happen to have a luck streak with probability that seems extraordinary. However, just because they go through something like that doesn't mean they'll have it forever. It is just a force in our universe that can possibly involve the same number being hit over and over again. Bear in mind that if it wasn't for such things, then videos like this could not be possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0WcZFp2aCI
Just my humble opinion..... I think the LD is like a program in a computer. In order for that program to share information there needs to be both an active connection and a shared operating system to recognize and interrupt what is transmitted. For a long time I actively tried to find and communicate with any other life form in my lucid dreams. I regret to report I failed. :cry:
nesgirl wrote:
HAGART wrote:I don't think channeling has anything to do with probability at all. However, when someone is making a profit with their 'miracle', that is always a big red flag. Being a lying actor is a much more plausible, and valid reason.
I wasn't referring to channeling. I was referring to certain events that happen. Would you pay someone to get all 7s on a slot machine, even if they managed to accomplish that?? Thing is if you manage to hit probability, you shouldn't be asking for anything for it. The reason being probability isn't your doing, it is a force in our universe in effect due to mathematics. Most are lying. On the other hand, there are a few people who I could consider the "Born Lucky" ones where they happen to have a luck streak with probability that seems extraordinary. However, just because they go through something like that doesn't mean they'll have it forever. It is just a force in our universe that can possibly involve the same number being hit over and over again. Bear in mind that if it wasn't for such things, then videos like this could not be possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0WcZFp2aCI
NESGIRL I totally agree with you on that if a profit is being made by something like that it does raise a red flag.
HAGART https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0WcZFp2aCI this youtube video isn't even real life examples an insurance company illustrated and directed them. Im not saying probability doesn't exist but I maybe real life videos would be more easy for me to understand your concept?
@buildit. But what if in order to share a lucid dream your correct there needs to be a connection for "physical things to connect" but as far as we know consciousness is not physical so what if you merely had to be close to someone and both having a ld at the same time then your consciousness could meet by more of a less physical connection and rather a knowing of "this person is close to me" so it may be possible to share consciousness?
dreamstudent wrote: HAGART https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0WcZFp2aCI this youtube video isn't even real life examples an insurance company illustrated and directed them. Im not saying probability doesn't exist but I maybe real life videos would be more easy for me to understand your concept
I am aware of the fact they staged the scenes, however, such things in reality have in fact happened most of us aren't aware of, so I just use that as an example of how it could work. I mean, did I really think the handicapped kid was going to guess my WILD clothes that one time when he was telling fake stories about seeing me at the skating center the previous day (I was asleep on the couch having a WILD)? The odds of him doing that were in fact about the same as in that video, and yet he somehow managed to get it correct. So obviously there was probability in play in that incident.
DreamStudent:
You got me and nesgirl mixed up. No problem! It's a simple mistake, but thought I'd clear that up. We all know who said what so it doesn't matter. I understand! 8-)
My apologies I need to learn to quote better.
Nesgirl: okay I understand better now.
About dream sharing....
In order for that to be possible we would have to somehow be able to transmit thoughts that can be picked up by other brains. We would have to be consciously connected somehow. Is that even physically possible?
Michael Persinger seems to think so. If you're interested, here is a lecture explaining his reasoning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6VPpDublg
HAGART wrote: About dream sharing....
In order for that to be possible we would have to somehow be able to transmit thoughts that can be picked up by other brains. We would have to be consciously connected somehow. Is that even physically possible?
Michael Persinger seems to think so. If you're interested, here is a lecture explaining his reasoning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6VPpDublg
Without watching the video yet and before I loose my thought I'd say there are many connections that are subconscious in nature. Did you rationally decide, "hey that girl or guy is hot!" after you caught a big whiff of pheromones or testosterone? Are there subliminal visual queues that people give and others pick up? Ever meet someone with an uncanny sense of a persons nature and even able to act as a human lie detector? Point is, not only can signals be transmitted thru frequency or amplitude but possible in ways we just don't "see" or detect yet.
Thou there are fake channellers out there (often making money from people desperate to hear messages from their passed over loved ones.. watch out for the ones who make guesses or ask any leading questions!! eg do you have a brother named Bob?), there are some out there who arent.
Ive had some experiences around channelling, I even did weekly classes on that for a few years trying to learn trance channelling (I never got good at it and only a few times had a mild blowblowing experience with it).
My first experience with channelling was I was doing a 10 week like paranormal course with someone from the Spiritualist Church (I cant remember now what they called this course). Each week we focused on a different topic eg auras, spiritual healing etc and often an expert would come in to demostrate. The channelling week was sure interesting for me as it was the first time I can say I certainly saw a for real channel. One couldnt doubt it after seeing this example of it.
This lady.. she channelled an old chinese guy. Her whole face changed (she actually went male looking and chinese looking while doing the channelling), no one could fake what I saw, it was like we were looking at someone else. Not only that, her voice did completely change too, even her accent.
I was further blown away when the channelling was finished. I saw this whispy smoke come out from the top of the channellers head. The spirit leaving her. So that was my introduction to channelling and it blew me away so much that I then went out trying to find myself a teacher to learn it after seeing this.
I persisted trying to learn how to do that for several years but didnt get far with it.. 0ther then a few times when I did channel and said all this stuff and felt very strange while this was going on (one time I thought I was going to spontanously combust, I got so hot it scared me).. in my classes I just normally was unsure if what I spoke hesitatingly was just my own imagination or not.
I did once thou have a spontanous channelling event when some Johovba Witnesses came to my door and I started (to my surprise, I hadnt tried to trance out or bring anything in) started channelling all this stuff at them.. I (well whatever I was channelling) nearly converted them out of their own religion lol. They knew something very weird and powerful had happened and were asking so many questions and this channeled whatever was answering them. I think then a ban was put on my place as I didnt have any of them visit me for many years after that incident. Anyway, I consider myself a dunce in that field, I tried so very hard for years to learn it but only ever have channelled a few times myself and I cant do it at will.
To the person who commented that channellers must be fakes as they shut their eyes. There is a very good reason for that. To channel one has loose ones normal state of being and enter into an altered state, entering into an altered state is very hard with ones eyes open (it would be like asking someone to LD with physical eyes open) and the spirit who enters, doesnt need to see out of the bodies eyes. (This being said thou I think the the first for real one I saw, she or rather he did open her eyes.. is so long ago I witnessed that that Im not sure now but I think he did and was looking at everyone throu her eyes. I was kind of in state of shock during the whole channelling, strugging to believe whole face had changed)
I hate watching the ones on TV who actually ask the people if they are correct in what they are saying as they go along. That's so much of what one shouldnt do if one is doing it for real as it actually puts the concious mind in the way of the subconciousness or whatever one is trying to channel. The little you know about the other the better.
One of the common elements in your question is experience. There is universal experience, and individual experience. Are you trying to make one into the other? Let us examine it by the principles of language.
There are two branches of language, of reasoning, Logic and Analogic, derived from the definition of a thing. Now, also by definition, for either branch to become a thing, it must accompany its complementary element. So, in logic, we must have the accompanying analog to make it into language. I.e. the same or similar experience. That is impossible with personal experiences. So can you share an unshared experience? One may come close with a commensurate analog, but an extraordinary one, doubtful. In Analogic, hey, if they do not see the ratio in a figure, well, then you cannot reason in logic with them. If one cannot see the similar idea in the many examples, soon you will find you cannot communicate because each persons word is not the same word. If they cannot grasp that a point is not a thing, you get morons claiming that a line, a plane, space, is composed of an infinite number of points. Great news on that, you can tell them that you are treating them to a salad, and it will be ready when your knife waves in the air an infinite number of times. So, can you divide the divisor? Or predicate existence? Plato's Parmenides was to example what happens when you cannot distinguish the difference between the boundary, the material in a boundary and a thing. What happens to reasoning when you confuse names. The Subject naming convention, which are names of things, always has two predicates, a sum of names called the Predicate naming convention. Without the analog information in the predicates, you cannot recreate a thing, even in your mind.
So, clarify what you are asking, for the principles of language to violate themselves or what?
In my book, paranormal use to be called porch monkeys. Or two people waling together while each was talking on their cell phone. If you are fascinated by catch words that glitter in your mind, then, welcome paranormal!
The first place to start in the examination of reason, are the principles of language itself. Things can be defined, its elements cannot, they, must be abstracted from experience. It also means you cannot predicate of an experience you have never had. You can run descriptive scenarios, but the results is still not a thing, or nothing. i.e. we are back to the ancient demand for evidence, and constructability.
Oh, please do not share this information with writers of predicate calculus's and special logic systems, each trying to avoid contradicting themselves. The poor bastards are lost in the land of the paranormal, a land where words are not really words, but glittery gibberish of the self flattering ghost.
You need to dumb it down into simple Sesame Street language with sock puppets for my pathetic mind to comprehend.
HAGART wrote: You need to dumb it down into simple Sesame Street language with sock puppets for my pathetic mind to comprehend.
Okay, reality is not different from itself. Man, however, cannot speak with such unity, yet. The ability to speak using actual language takes an education currently not provided in the schools of mankind. For example, "normal" and "paranormal" have never been well defined terms, nor can one define them such as to make reality different from itself.
Now, there may be ice pops in the freezer.
"I have a ball. Perhaps you'd like to bounce it."
- The Simpsons
"No sir, I am a meat popsicle." The 5th Element. A website dedicated towards any phenomena is one of examining evidences. This implies a certain level of intellectual ability. I don't think the references you are fond of exactly qualify. If you do not have the ability to keep up in a race, it is common courtesy to step off the track.
I think I have deciphered what you first wrote, Philosopher.
I spent many hours poring over it, consulting Wikipedia, Wiktionary, and even Urban Dictionary. I pulled an all-nighter drinking coffee in a wide-eyed frenzy, drawing graphs, charts, geometric shapes, and little cartoon stickmen. I used logic, analogic, and even at times, illogic. I was getting nowhere. I traveled back in time with my hot tub time machine, and spoke with Plato, but he screamed at me in what I could only guess by his body language, "Who are you, what was that flashing light you came from, and why are you naked?", so I came back empty. Plato was no help, so I spent the rest of the night forming abstract shapes out of Play-Doh, analyzing them on the verge of insanity.
Now, in a daze, red-eyed, disheveled and unshaven, typing this with coffee jitters, it finally hit me, and I think I found the core meaning of what you were saying:
"I don't find your title clever."
Nope, that is not it at all. It simply means,
Relation to self is not admissible. i.e. A equals A, or in short, Reality is not different from itself.
But, good work. You put forth a manly effort.
A person defeats themselves when trying to figure something out, when their original premise demands that one and the same thing, is actually two different things. One cannot really believe that part of reality is "normal" another "paranormal" and another something else. There are simply things and the parts of things, which, in of themselves are nothing.
A mental exercise. For example, A table has a shape and made out of wood. One cannot say the shape of a table is a table, or that it is a thing. Likewise one cannot say that the wood of a table is a thing, a table is wooden. But wood is not a thing. A tree is wooden, but a tree is not wood.
When you think by definition, then you become aware that a definition equates the name of a thing, to the names of that things forms and the names of that things material while remembering that neither the element of form or the element of material, are, in of themselves things.
I still think you are just nitpicking a catchy title that was merely meant to grab attention.
You reminded me now of a work of art I have thought of making, but don't have the means. It's a wooden table and chair on a wooden floor. The table, is large, but in the shape of a chair, and the table is small beside it. It's an interactive piece and everyone is free to sit at it.
For me, it demonstrates how we regard objects in two ways: Form and Function. If you sit on a table and eat off a chair, then isn't the table actually a chair and the chair a table? And also where does one object end and the other begin if they composed of the same material? (Like everything is composed of atoms). We construct most of reality with our minds and definitions of 'stuff' (for lack of a better word).
If analogic means to think in metaphors and analogies, I do that most. Putting things into words is hard, but also secondary only as a means to communicate an idea. The idea itself is primary.
Damn, now you have me on one of your quests. Is an idea other than a linguistic expression, in either logic or analogic? A new idea, the ghost in the idea! Who we gonna call?
I wouldn't mind talking philosophy, but this is the wrong place. I use to have a thread in the Off-Topic section, called, "Time for a deep discussion". It was over a year ago and hard to find because it's buried deep, but here's a link to it:
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14354
(Copy/Paste that in your web browser for easy access, or put on your Indiana Jones hat and sift through the archives and find that trove on page 5 in the off-topic section.)
The premise is very open.
Oh, I certainly agree with you "talking philosophy" whatever that is, is something for back allies?
I have often heard of this, that reasoning in one place, is not the same in another. A relativity principle of words, it seems to me.