The Boogyman Proved Real

When I was a child, my aunt told me boogyman's real name. His name is Pecatuiah. She told me that Pecatuiah kidnaps naughty children at night when they're asleep. That same night Pecatuiah came for me. I guess I should have finished my soup instead of letting my sister have it. I got up in the night to use the toilet. The house was slightly different than what I remembered it to be but I figured my mother had changed the layout while I was asleep. Suddenly, and without warning, a snow-skinned man emerged from a wall, like an opaque ghost, and leered at me. He had the most maleficent smirk as he gazed at me with the deepest blue eyes. He could see right through me.

He began to chant: "Peh...Pecatuiah...saco minguaco... lele cala..." - and immediately I understood this to mean " Pecatuiah will shrink you and bag you, little boy is silenced." I screamed and began to run. My family was nowhere to to be seen. He got hold of me and pressed my navel, magically muting my voice. Somehow I escaped but I knew he'd be back. I must've fainted after the experience for I came to in bed in the morning. I told my oldest sister. That evening Pecatuiah returned but was strangely wrapped in a blanket. He chanted those strange words again but sounded different. This happened before bedtime and my sister was missing but my mother was talking to a friend in the living room. I told her everything. She bought incense the following day to ward off the evil spirit. I am absolutely convinced that the Boogyman aka Pecatuiah is real!

[ Post made via Android ] Image

Makes me wonder if this is where the whole thin man story really began. :o

The problem is that you ate the soup. It is known from ancient Indian mystical Baba-Guru-Yoda-Monks, that the soup is coveted by "Pecatuiah" from ancient eastern mysticism, roughly translated to, 'the man of boogy'. It should be poured into a bed pan before sleep as an offering to that being.

That is why he was angered and appeared "snow-skinned" as you described. He was malnourished.

I want to delve deeper into this and truly help you, but I must know more facts. Was the soup tomato based, stock based, or was it a cream soup?

There are several problems with your story here that are quite clear to me. The most obvious and overshadowing of them all is the fact that you hallucinated the boogyman in a dream. Come now, Summerlander. You’re an oneironaut; you should be able to tell the difference between reality and hypnagogic projection.

The first important detail is that your Aunt told you about Pecatuiah. How could your Aunt, some random individual, have psionically-obtained information about the world that no one else does? I did a Google search for the words “Pecatuiah boogyman.” And you know what came up? Absolutely zilch.

Now … when you woke up and went to the bathroom, elements of your house were different and changed. This you readily dismiss without much consideration. You don’t think it even a little important to wonder why your entire house had changed? How could your mother have possibly changed the layout of the entire house during the brief span of your sleep, while you rested undisturbed by the commotion? Changed details are telltale signs that you are traversing a dreamscape. It wasn’t real, Summerlander.

Then “Pecatuiah” shows up and he speaks to you and you somehow know exactly what he is saying. Why do you know the exact translation of what he said? It sounds like no other language ever written, and yet you seamlessly are able to comprehend him. Moreover, how do you remember every little detail of Pecatuiah’s piece of dialogue (and even how to spell it) years later? All of this is more proof that you were in a dreamscape. But that last part makes me think that maybe you’re lying.

If you fainted how did you end up back in the bed? What, did Pecatuiah drag you back into bed so as to cover up all the evidence? Why? Where was your sister? Do you have any explanation that she was gone? This you disregard just as dismissively as you did the altered elements of your house. Did your sister make a habit of mysteriously disappearing in your youth?

You’ve seemed to be a level-headed person in the past, Summerlander. But I don’t know anymore. There is no reliable evidence for your claims. Even without any evidence, your story has holes the size of South America.

He made a joke thread like this in the past in the paranormal section Deschain. I don't find this funny at all.

Wait, what? He sounds really convicted.

deschainXIX wrote: Wait, what? He sounds really convicted.

http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=14945

Yeah why not read this thread? This was a joke thread. At first I literally thought I was Lucid Dreaming when I was reading that, because Summerland would never say that.

Ah, yes. I remember that. I don't know. We'll see how he responds to my criticism and your comment tomorrow.

We must respect each other's views. I get what DeschainXIX is saying, but did you have to be so harsh? Summerlander is going through a difficult time and we must not nit-pick on every detail. He is truly trying to express himself and you must respect that.

I too was visited by a mysterious being in the night as I was falling asleep. I put my soup in the bed pan (with a little urine) as I always do, but the "Man Of Boogy" still visited me. I'm trembling as I recall this....

It was dark, and I opened my eyes and saw my room. I couldn't move. Some mysterious being entered from the doorway and approached me. I tried to scream, but I couldn't. It was the scariest thing of all. It was absolutely hideous! It was wearing bell bottoms!

It hunched over and whispered in my ear.... "It's time to boogy!" I saw many lights flashing on the walls and a reflective orb above my bed! I woke up suddenly in tears and a profuse sweat.

I wonder if I should add more urine to my soup next time? Can anybody help me!

EDIT: I just remembered. The Man Of Boogy is vegan and I was providing Chicken Noodle Soup in my bed pan. The being is a vegan which explains it's ornery behavior. (It's the master of ornernaughts after all) I need to make it a vegetable soup next time. With urine of course to add that mysterious thing it craves known as 'Flavour' or in the western tribes of American culture in the village of Hollywood, known as 'Flavor'. Hopefully that appeases it.

HAGART wrote: We must respect each other's views. I get what DeschainXIX is saying, but did you have to be so harsh? Summerlander is going through a difficult time and we must not nit-pick on every detail. He is truly trying to express himself and you must respect that.

"Every experience that a human can have admits of rational discussion about its causes and consequences." --Sam Harris

We have to nit-pick bad ideas, HAGART. If something is true, it is simply true, despite it hurting someone's feelings or being out of check with someone's experience. Also, why would my trying to reason with him harm him? If anything, it would help ease his mind in knowing the boogeyman is not real. One more thing:

"We must respect each other's views." --Michael (AKA HAGART), 2014

"Some views don't deserve respect." --Sam (AKA deschainXIX), 2014

As for your testimony, I have a few comments: Come on, HAGART. We're all oneironauts, here! We have standards of reality! Perhaps you two are on the wrong forum. You were obviously in sleep paralysis, as per your inability to move when the "mysterious being" approached you.

There are also a lot of continuity issues between you two's stories. For example, why does Summerlander's boogeyman look different from yours? Why does yours speak English while Summerlander's speaks in some strange language?

As for peeing in your food trough .... Urine has very little nutritional value. Why would Pecatuiah be hungering for some mortal being's excrement? I'm only appealing to your crazy views here. Sounds like you people are into some crazy tribal stuff.

Wow! So much to explain! LOL! :mrgreen:

buildit wrote: Makes me wonder if this is where the whole thin man story really began. :o

What about the fat man story? :mrgreen:

HAGART wrote: The problem is that you ate the soup. It is known from ancient Indian mystical Baba-Guru-Yoda-Monks, that the soup is coveted by "Pecatuiah" from ancient eastern mysticism, roughly translated to, 'the man of boogy'. It should be poured into a bed pan before sleep as an offering to that being.

That is why he was angered and appeared "snow-skinned" as you described. He was malnourished.

I want to delve deeper into this and truly help you, but I must know more facts. Was the soup tomato based, stock based, or was it a cream soup?

LOL! Interesting interpretation but I think the ancient Indian mystics were mistaken about Pecatuiah wanting the soup. (My aunt has already imparted quite a lot of information about the Boogeyman to me.) I believe, rather, that Pecatuia finds kids who eat nutritive soups worthy of respect. But it is curious that you should focus on the ingridients. In Romania, Pecatuiah is known as "L'uomo nero" and is said to take away kids who don't finish their soup. (In Iran, parents warn their children that the Boogeyman does exactly the same!) Now I think I was having something similar to the Romanian ciorba de perisoare, which includes beef, potatoes, onions and peppers. I had the chicken variant, not beef. Nutritive nevertheless. :)

I don't think his appearance matters so much, and, indeed, Belgians have identified him the be a shapeshifter, master of deception, with a penchant for frightening and confusing his victims. But he is also known to occasionally drink the blood of his victims. So the Boogyman may enjoy being and looking like a vampire part-time. :shock:

deschainXIX wrote: There are several problems with your story here that are quite clear to me. The most obvious and overshadowing of them all is the fact that you hallucinated the boogyman in a dream. Come now, Summerlander. You’re an oneironaut; you should be able to tell the difference between reality and hypnagogic projection.

The Boogyman chased me during my childhood. I was not yet an oneironaut. Also, how do you explain those times when he appeared to me during the day, cloaked in bed sheets just like in Goya's "Que viene el Coco"? My cousin even heard him chant once and helped me to escape. :o

deschainXIX wrote: The first important detail is that your Aunt told you about Pecatuiah. How could your Aunt, some random individual, have psionically-obtained information about the world that no one else does? I did a Google search for the words “Pecatuiah boogyman.” And you know what came up? Absolutely zilch.

There is a privy kind of knowledge that was imparted to my aunt which was first told by my great grandfather who was a Jewish German general. My great grandfather first spoke of "Pouka" (from the Old Norse "puki," which means nature spirit). It etymologically turned into "Peca" (which in Portuguese and Spanish comes from the word "pecar," meaning, "to sin"... coincidence?) :twisted:

In Tamil Nadu, India, he is known as Poochaandi. Notice the resemblance? Babau in Italy. Papao in Portugal. You really think these coincidences are a product of normal etymological evolution that began with some made up fairytale long ago? Think again! Jin Baba, the Djinn in Pakistan. Baba Yaga, in Russia. :!:

In many countries he is even portrayed as carrying children in a sack. No smoke without fire I say! Pecatuiah was around in the days of the Buganese pirates of Indonesia, when these used to terrorised the seafaring Europeans. Some say these evil pirates hated the legitimate traders and do-gooders so they summoned a terrifying evil spirit. Since the Buganese pirates were also referred to as "bugis," the European sailors named the demon that haunted them and their children at night as "bugi man." That's where the term Boogyman is believed to come from. I absolutely believe that Pecatuiah, the Boogyman, is real! :|

Pecatuiah once lived in human form during the reign of Sultan Mansur Shah in the 15th century. His name was Hang Tuah, one of the greatest martial artists who ever lived. It is of no coincidence that "pencak silat" means "martial arts" in Indonesian. Think of "Pencak Tuah" and you soon arrive at PECATUIAH! What more proof do you need? :geek:

As a boy, Hang Tuah was already very spiritual and he practice meditation. (Surprise, surprise!) This paid off as he now roams freely as he wishes between the physical realm and the spirit realm. If you want to learn more about this avatar of Pecatuiah, check out Sejarah Melayu, the semi-historical Malay Annals. As an adult, he was very loyal to the sultan. Now, the sultan had a princess who would only marry him if a list of requirements was met. In the list she requested seven jars of virgins' tears and a bowl of the sultan's first born son's blood. Tuah could see that this was difficult and failed his sultan before he died. It is said that he is now making up for this in the afterlife by collecting tears of children worldwide (by frightening them), and occasionally taking blood from the sultan's descendants.

At the same time he introduces children to the spiritual nature of existence. Hang Tuah also once said, "Takkan Melayu di Dunia." It's Malaysian for "Never shall the Malay vanish from the earth." Shamans are well acquainted with Pecatuiah, they know him as "Yekyua" (rhymes with "...tuiah"). Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan knew about him, and he was suffiently trained to be able to tell the difference between vivid or lucid dreams and visions of objectively existent spirit worlds. You think scientists have the time to dedicate their lives to spiritual training? People like Don Juan devoted their entire lives to it and made discoveries that Western civilisation isn't prepared for. Just read Castaneda's "The Art of Dreaming." :ugeek:

It can be argued that Pecatuiah wants children to be loyal and just to their parents just like he was to the sultan. In the Netherlands, the Boogyman is known to sometimes only take children temporarily. Spiritualists have posited that there is a kind of spiritual symbiosis between Pecatuiah and the parents of his victims. It is almost as if in his mind he is doing the parents a favour by frightening the naughty children. Some say, in this respect, that he is not evil but he certainly has a false reputation to maintain. It is the price he pays, or indeed his penance, for having failed Mansur Shah in his past earthly life. If you doubt the veracity of this story, check it out. It's all out there and legit. 8-)

deschainXIX wrote: Now … when you woke up and went to the bathroom, elements of your house were different and changed. This you readily dismiss without much consideration. You don’t think it even a little important to wonder why your entire house had changed? How could your mother have possibly changed the layout of the entire house during the brief span of your sleep, while you rested undisturbed by the commotion? Changed details are telltale signs that you are traversing a dreamscape. It wasn’t real, Summerlander.

It felt very real when I got out of bed and went to the bathroom. Everything was clear. I did not ask my mother whether she had made changes of not but she is known to do this a lot and it doesn't matter what time it is. Also, it wasn't the entire house. It was a few things in the bedroom, the corridor and the bathroom. Besides, Pecatuiah, as I mentioned before, is known to frighten and confuse his victims. This sometimes involves optical illusion in the surroundings. It could be his attempt to make the homely environment more unfamiliar so that the victims feel somewhat lost and helpless. It kinda prompts you for what comes next... :)

And it can't say it wasn't real. You simply weren't there. It felt real and it recurred at daytime, albeit his presence was less conspicuous for some reason. Perhaps he really is a vampire and needs to cover his body with sheets during the day... :o

deschainXIX wrote: Then “Pecatuiah” shows up and he speaks to you and you somehow know exactly what he is saying. Why do you know the exact translation of what he said? It sounds like no other language ever written, and yet you seamlessly are able to comprehend him. Moreover, how do you remember every little detail of Pecatuiah’s piece of dialogue (and even how to spell it) years later? All of this is more proof that you were in a dreamscape. But that last part makes me think that maybe you’re lying.

When he chants "Pecatuiah" he is announcing himself and this hardly requires any translation. "Saco minguaco" is almost similar to Portuguese. Saco = bag; minguaco is similar to minga = shrink. Lele (little boy but also colloquially addresses the penis); cala = shut up, silence. A little telepathy might have been used to clarify exactly what he meant. 8-)

deschainXIX wrote: If you fainted how did you end up back in the bed? What, did Pecatuiah drag you back into bed so as to cover up all the evidence? Why?

I was probably taken temporarily, as the Dutch have discovered about the majority of their children. Sometimes Pecatuiah just wants to teach naughty kids a lesson.

deschainXIX wrote: Where was your sister? Do you have any explanation that she was gone? This you disregard just as dismissively as you did the altered elements of your house. Did your sister make a habit of mysteriously disappearing in your youth?

Sometimes she would say that Pecatuiah had tied her up and hidden her in a dark place before he went after me. That was odd. I guess he didn't want her to interfere while he was trying to take me. :shock:

deschainXIX wrote: You’ve seemed to be a level-headed person in the past, Summerlander. But I don’t know anymore. There is no reliable evidence for your claims. Even without any evidence, your story has holes the size of South America.

I had a paradigm shift. I have reached the fifth level described by the old wise man in "God's Debris." I think I provided enough evidence here so far. How can so many people all over the world describe the same entity and come up with similar names for it. Pecatuiah introduces himself and this is why. He is real. You can't disprove him... :idea:

By the way, look at the massive hole in rationalism and empiricism. Outrageous presupositions about the world are made using these epistemological methods and the philosopher Immanuel Kant clearly spelled out their inadequacy. The former reckons a priori reasoning is enough to know things about the objective, mind-independent world. The latter reckons the world is knowable, a posteriori, through experience, faithfully believing (as did John Locke and David Hume) that the senses can give us an accurate account of objects and their nature exactly as they are. Really? Kant provided some examples of components that must be brought on by the mind alone to be believed. If our minds are a "tabula rasa" as Hume claimed, how then can the mind make judgements about the very objects it has studied? Where did the concepts for making judgements about these objects come from?

Kant showed us that the real world is not knowable. Everything we have epistemologically imbibed is built on mental interpretations. Reason itself is based on empirical experience and cannot beget the true model of a mind-independent world. Knowledge has constraints because the mind constitutes features of experience and is limited to its subjective representation of space and time. Thus, the veracity of his transcendental idealism and empirical realism. Knowledge only applies to phenomena (how things are given to us) and do not reveal things-in-themselves. A thing-in-itself can never be known.

*"The transcendental idealist, on the contrary, can be an empirical realist, hence, as he is called, a dualist, i.e., he can concede the existence of matter without going beyond mere self-consciousness and assuming something more than the certainty of representations in me, hence the cogito ergo sum. For because he allows this matter and even its inner possibility to be valid only for appearance– which, separated from our sensibility, is nothing –matter for him is only a species of representations (intuition), which are call external, not as if they related to objects that are external in themselves but because they relate perceptions to space, where all things are external to one another, but that space itself is in us." *

• Immanuel Kant

Thus I reason that I don't know about the real nature of the keyboard in front of me any more than I know about the Boogyman's. What I do know is that they have both been represented in my mind, perceived... felt! Why should one be given more credit as an existential thing over the other? Note, many people experience the Boogyman but only a few get to see and touch my laptop... :twisted:

nesgirl wrote: He made a joke thread like this in the past in the paranormal section Deschain. I don't find this funny at all.

I made a joke before but everyone knew it was a joke and I didn't deny it. This is real now. Do I look like I'm joking? Why would I lie about this? :roll:

deschainXIX wrote: Wait, what? He sounds really convicted.

Thank you! 8-)

HAGART wrote: We must respect each other's views. I get what DeschainXIX is saying, but did you have to be so harsh? Summerlander is going through a difficult time and we must not nit-pick on every detail. He is truly trying to express himself and you must respect that.

Very considerate. But the difficult time is over. It is all true. The afterlife is real and Pecatuiah is certainly a nocturnal and diurnal force in this world. I'm 100% convinced. The evidence is overwhelming. Too many witnesses! :)

HAGART wrote: I too was visited by a mysterious being in the night as I was falling asleep. I put my soup in the bed pan (with a little urine) as I always do, but the "Man Of Boogy" still visited me. I'm trembling as I recall this....

See? and that confirms what I said about the soup and Pecatuiah's intentions. You've become receptive to him because I mentioned him here. In fact, he might have visited you before, in your childhood, and now the channels have opened up again.

HAGART wrote: It was dark, and I opened my eyes and saw my room. I couldn't move. Some mysterious being entered from the doorway and approached me. I tried to scream, but I couldn't. It was the scariest thing of all. It was absolutely hideous! It was wearing bell bottoms!

Did you feel like he was pressing your navel? He might be using different methods of silencing his victims. I do not think that was sleep paralysis at all.

HAGART wrote: It hunched over and whispered in my ear.... "It's time to boogy!" I saw many lights flashing on the walls and a reflective orb above my bed! I woke up suddenly in tears and a profuse sweat.

He's a real life Freddy Krueger, I tell ya'! :mrgreen:

HAGART wrote: EDIT: I just remembered. The Man Of Boogy is vegan and I was providing Chicken Noodle Soup in my bed pan. The being is a vegan which explains it's ornery behavior. (It's the master of ornernaughts after all) I need to make it a vegetable soup next time. With urine of course to add that mysterious thing it craves known as 'Flavour' or in the western tribes of American culture in the village of Hollywood, known as 'Flavor'. Hopefully that appeases it.

It won't! By the way, are you joking? :mrgreen:

Cuz I'm dead serious... :shock: I just realised another thing. I think he has trouble pronouncing vowels. Peca... or puka? Lele or Lulu (as he's also known)?

Interesting topic. I search on google about boogyman but didn't found any things.

Are you talking about boogyman or Mr boogie sinister ????

...

Summerlander has done a lot more research than I have. I only know what my grandmother told me, and it has always been tradition to leave urinated soup in a bed pan to satiate The Boogyman and keep it from harming us.

This is obviously a real phenomenon since The Boogyman is reported among all cultures, but simply goes by different names. We all have different names for a tree in different languages, but it's still just as real.

But I did some thinking and there is something I don't understand. How can The Boogyman appear in different bedrooms at the same time across the globe? This can mean one thing and one thing only. There must be many different boogymen. They are all are 'trees' by different names, but even each tree is unique and there are many species.

That explains how they can be in two places at once, and also why they appear differently for each individual.

I've done some serious thinking and perhaps what my grandmother has told me all this time is wrong. I'm open minded. Leaving soup out in a bedpan to make it go away is like trying to ward off mice by leaving a piece of cheese beside my bed. I will try other methods now. Any suggestions?

Summerlander wrote: Wow! So much to explain! LOL!

Indeed. :x

Summerlander wrote: The Boogyman chased me during my childhood. I was not yet an oneironaut. Also, how do you explain those times when he appeared to me during the day, cloaked in bed sheets just like in Goya's "Que viene el Coco"? My cousin even heard him chant once and helped me to escape.

You can experience a dream sequence that is profoundly vivid without being an oneironaut. In fact, your lack of being a lucid practicioner makes it even more likely that you experience some sort of sleep-induced hallucination that you were not aware was false. Every night billions of people have experiences like this, and some of them are even more terrifying and pseudo-realistic. We must come to realize that these things are figments of our own very potent minds.

We can explain Pecatuiah's appearance coinciding with ancient mythos by realizing that you had already been given the idea of a boogeyman by your aunt. Your aunt planted the seed, and your mind did the rest--filled in the blank with all your strange experiences. A question to consider: Did you later question and discuss with your cousin the experience? Because if not, there is no way we can know she was actually present. She could very well have been a dream character. Evidence invalid.

Summerlander wrote: There is a privy kind of knowledge that was imparted to my aunt which was first told by my great grandfather who was a Jewish German general. My great grandfather first spoke of "Pouka" (from the Old Norse "puki," which means nature spirit). It etymologically turned into "Peca" (which in Portuguese and Spanish comes from the word "pecar," meaning, "to sin"... coincidence?)

In Tamil Nadu, India, he is known as Poochaandi. Notice the resemblance? Babau in Italy. Papao in Portugal. You really think these coincidences are a product of normal etymological evolution that began with some made up fairytale long ago?

Yes, I do actually. You've yet to provide an explanation for there being such a gaping void in the internet concerning the word "Pecatuiah." Absolutely nothing comes up. If he's so well-known to people, why do I get literally no connections? No one has ever referenced the name. Your mind is simply highlighting the coincidental pattern in etymological roots because that's what you want to see, based on your preconceived notions. What's stopping you from wondering if maybe someone in your familial lineage had extensive knowledge of global etymology and devised a name--"Pecatuiah"--that fit in neatly? The boogeyman is nothing more than a scheme devised by generations of parents desperate to scare their children into respectful, listening submission. And this is what happened to you. Your aunt planted that idea within you, and a dark plant has grown to tower over your entire life. It's time to wake up. "What is ... the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient ... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed--fully understood--that sticks; right in there somewhere." --Dom Kobb, "Inception" True words. With this argument, are you going to say that Santa Claus is real too? Simply because in other languages there are similar words used to refer to the big man? :D

Also … where did you get that information about the boogeyman being passed down through your family’s generations? Did your aunt tell you? Because if so, it is unreliable, seeing as it invades upon my previous supposition that all of this is being spun from the tongue of your aunt.

There are a few problems I found in your story:

Summerlander wrote: As a boy, Hang Tuah was already very spiritual and he practice meditation. (Surprise, surprise!) This paid off as he now roams freely as he wishes between the physical realm and the spirit realm. If you want to learn more about this avatar of Pecatuiah, check out Sejarah Melayu, the semi-historical Malay Annals. As an adult, he was very loyal to the sultan. Now, the sultan had a princess who would only marry him if a list of requirements was met. In the list she requested seven jars of virgins' tears and a bowl of the sultan's first born son's blood. Tuah could see that this was difficult and failed his sultan before he died. It is said that he is now making up for this in the afterlife by collecting tears of children worldwide (by frightening them), and occasionally taking blood from the sultan's descendants.

Meditation does not allow you to be detached from your body. The mind and the body are the same, both reigned to the natural materialism that they are; dualism is a pre-scientific notion at best. Even all the astral projection nutcasese believe that you can never be permanently disembodied, because of your close ties to it. Even if you could be disembodied, you wouldn’t be able to exert your will in the physical realm.

Summerlander wrote: It can be argued that Pecatuiah wants children to be loyal and just to their parents just like he was to the sultan. In the Netherlands, the Boogyman is known to sometimes only take children temporarily. Spiritualists have posited that there is a kind of spiritual symbiosis between Pecatuiah and the parents of his victims. It is almost as if in his mind he is doing the parents a favour by frightening the naughty children. Some say, in this respect, that he is not evil but he certainly has a false reputation to maintain. It is the price he pays, or indeed his penance, for having failed Mansur Shah in his past earthly life. If you doubt the veracity of this story, check it out. It's all out there and legit.

This is obvious proof that the boogeyman is an irrational figment constructed by parents to reign in their children. To get them to behave. This “spiritual symbiosis” that you detect is actually you misinterpreting the truth that you intuitively perceived: that parents created the boogeyman. Similarly is it with the God-construct. Humans created him, and it is easy to trace his nature as portrayed by holy books to the men who thought him up.

Summerlander wrote: It felt very real when I got out of bed and went to the bathroom. Everything was clear. I did not ask my mother whether she had made changes of not but she is known to do this a lot and it doesn't matter what time it is. Also, it wasn't the entire house. It was a few things in the bedroom, the corridor and the bathroom. Besides, Pecatuiah, as I mentioned before, is known to frighten and confuse his victims. This sometimes involves optical illusion in the surroundings. It could be his attempt to make the homely environment more unfamiliar so that the victims feel somewhat lost and helpless. It kinda prompts you for what comes next...

And it can't say it wasn't real. You simply weren't there. It felt real and it recurred at daytime, albeit his presence was less conspicuous for some reason. Perhaps he really is a vampire and needs to cover his body with sheets during the day...

As an oneironaut you should not doubt the mind’s terrifying ability to realistically portray the real world with all the clarity and realism the real world has. It doesn’t matter how convinced you are what you experienced was real; everything indicates that it was not.

Summerlander wrote: When he chants "Pecatuiah" he is announcing himself and this hardly requires any translation. "Saco minguaco" is almost similar to Portuguese. Saco = bag; minguaco is similar to minga = shrink. Lele (little boy but also colloquially addresses the penis); cala = shut up, silence. A little telepathy might have been used to clarify exactly what he meant.

Is it not apparent to you that it is extremely convenient for Pecatuiah to have visited you the very night your aunt informed you of his existence? Why had you never experienced his terror prior to your aunt warning you of him? I'm genuinely curious to hear about this. It is still a major plot-hole you have here, Summerlander, that you are able to recall the exact spelling of every word Pecatuiah said to you that night. The only solution is that you are making it all up. As for telepathy ... :lol: Come on! You're giving your mystery monster more and more superpowers as you go to shoddily patch up the I'm tearing. First he's a ghost, now he's a vampire, now he's a telepath. This is just all far too convenient, my friend. :)

Summerlander wrote: Kant showed us that the real world is not knowable. Everything we have epistemologically imbibed is built on mental interpretations. Reason itself is based on empirical experience and cannot beget the true model of a mind-independent world. Knowledge has constraints because the mind constitutes features of experience and is limited to its subjective representation of space and time. Thus, the veracity of his transcendental idealism and empirical realism. Knowledge only applies to phenomena (how things are given to us) and do not reveal things-in-themselves. A thing-in-itself can never be known.

"The transcendental idealist, on the contrary, can be an empirical realist, hence, as he is called, a dualist, i.e., he can concede the existence of matter without going beyond mere self-consciousness and assuming something more than the certainty of representations in me, hence the cogito ergo sum. For because he allows this matter and even its inner possibility to be valid only for appearance– which, separated from our sensibility, is nothing –matter for him is only a species of representations (intuition), which are call external, not as if they related to objects that are external in themselves but because they relate perceptions to space, where all things are external to one another, but that space itself is in us."

• Immanuel Kant

Upon this plane of existence, upon the knowable world, we must rely upon what can be obtained within the knowable word. Our world, our reality, is defined solely by our perception. That is the only world that we are wholly certain of, and it is the world that we must live in and act upon. Our suffering and pleasure take place in our reality, so we have to accept certain things to be true in order to improve and be comfortable. Perhaps reality is false … but it is the only reality we know. Look at it this way--all there is in a human being is it’s experience. My experience is all that is truly “real.”

I may be living in a high-complex virtual Petri dish, a programmed computer reality, and my body is in cryostasis in the real world. That doesn’t matter at all. Because what I am experiencing is in this computer simulation--all that is technically real is the computer simulation. I may accept this computer simulation to be false, but I still wouldn’t want a serial killer to abduct me and slowly torture me to death. And further if I believe all other people in the simulation are capable of experiencing pain and pleasure, then we should by all means employ science and empirical reasoning to make ourselves as ignorantly comfortable in this “world” as possible. (By the way, “tabula rasa” was actually Locke’s thought.)

Summerlander wrote: I'm 100% convinced. The evidence is overwhelming. Too many witnesses!

What witnesses? Provide a document or otherwise piece of literature concerning the existence of Pecatuiah.

Summerlander wrote: Did you feel like he was pressing your navel? He might be using different methods of silencing his victims. I do not think that was sleep paralysis at all.

Pressing upon the navel would hardly silence someone. If anything, surely that would give them incentive to scream louder.

If a boogeyman has been terrorizing children through the ages, up until present day, why is there absolutely no talk of him anymore outside of common colloquialism in referring to an irrational, schizophrenic fear? Why has there not been in-depth scientific studies into his existence? Conspiracy theorists and the rest videotaping their beds at night in hopes of capturing him on film? We have them constantly trying to prove aliens and bigfoot exist. Why not this?

Well, I am happy to announce I am no longer worried about the boogie man, I just found out Disco is dead and there will be no more boogie- man. :lol:

Please, buildit. This is serious! (Or at least it apparently is to Summerlander and HAGART lol.)

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

deschainXIX wrote: Please, buildit. This is serious! (Or at least it apparently is to Summerlander and HAGART lol.)

Hagart will get it, he was born to boggie.

I did some math today, considering I dream on average 3 hours a night, 365 days a year, for 35 years. It turns out I have been in a dream for 4.375 years. Let's assume that is a very high estimate and I can safely say I have been in a dream for 3 years.

That means that 3 years of my entire existence has been in a dream. So therefore even if the Boogyman is a figment of our imagination and only appears in a dream state, it's certainly a very real part of my life as real as anything else I have experienced. I just changed the definition of 'real' a little, but that debunks Deschain's argument and I have proved that, for all intent and purposes, they are indeed a real part of my life.

I however believe that the Boogyman and Boogymen are more real than that and truly exist beyond my mind. Anything real must abide by the laws of physics just like anything else. They are a cryptid which although haven't been documented scientifically still in fact exist. I know because I saw one once.

It would be interesting to study them. We already know their main diet, and bedrooms are their natural habitat. How do they procreate? If there are Boogymen, are there Boogywomen? Perhaps a Boogybaby as depicted in the movie, "Trainspotting" when he's lying in bed.

There is no need to fear them if we study and understand them. Most scientists would laugh at such an idea, but we need to have innovative thinkers like myself if we are ever to break new ground and make new discoveries.

"That means that 3 years of my entire..." "I however believe that..."

It would be different, HAGART, if you were speaking of a hallucination that haunts your sleeping mind. Instead you speak of a physical, viable being that can be traced through history and still lingers today, terrifying bad children and seeking nutrition from people's food trays. You act in reality as if it were wholly real by putting out urinated food trays. You physically act on this information, and this indicates belief, since belief is defined as something an individual accepts to be true and thusly proceeds to act on said conviction. If you believed a psychopath was standing outside your door, it would provoke a plan of action from you very different from if you believed your mother was standing outside your door (wow ... I just realized I use a hell of a lot of "psychopath" metaphors and illustrations lol).

There are real reasons and ways we can know dreams to be real. Reality is defined by perception, as I said, but we can still perform reality checks and determine our reality by studying our surroundings and "noticing the shifts in gravity and weather." (Inception.)

Plus, you're employing Orwell's "doublethink" here, and that must be avoided at all costs, for it is dangerous as well as misconceived and illogical. You cannot say you believe Pecatuiah to be a figment of your dreaming mind and also a figure in history. :D

"It would be interesting to study..."

Yes, by all means, conduct as many intensive studies as you can. As soon as you get me compelling evidence for the existence of such quasi-physical creatures, I will believe you ^_^

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

My memory escaped me, and I just remembered now, that I have indeed conducted several scientific experiments in the past. It was a while ago, so my memory is foggy, but as we continue discussing this you may find that certain things you say conveniently jog my memory. Funny how our minds work much like remembering a dream we had halfway through the day when something triggers it.

I laid out three bed pans of soup before sleep, each containing exactly 300mL of liquid. One was a luxuriously, rich Lobster Bisque (with a hint of urine), one was an insipid Vegan Minestrone (with a hint of urine), and the other was a control which I had filled with only urine. While asleep I awoke to the familiar glittering orb, with opalescent lights coruscating along the walls, and heard the same mysterious words whispered in my ear, "Let's Boogy!"

I jumped out of bed and caught a glimpse of the cryptid wearing a white suit with bell bottoms, contorting it's body in a rhythmic manner before ending in a pose with legs apart, hips out, one arm raised and an extended finger. Then it scurried off. I quickly drew a rough sketch, and then I checked the bedpans and poured each into a graduated cylinder to measure the loss of liquid. The urine was still 300 mL, the Lobster Bisque was 250 mL and the vegan Minestrone was only 50 mL.

That proves that The Boogyman is indeed real, and is a vegan. I did more research on the internet armed with my findings and the rough sketch I drew. It turns out there is a tribe in western Americas in the village of Hollywood that is a Mecca for vegans and I found that many have ties to the cult of Scientology. I was surprised to find out that in their ancient scriptures they speak of a being known as "The Travolta". It comes out 6 times a night, and never on a Saturday because apparently it is sick on those nights. The Google images matched my sketch.

I also discovered that the Boogyman has a strange affect on animals. My dog, who sleeps next to me was acting strange the next day. He seemed more content than usual and wouldn't eat, as if the Boogyman had somehow, through special powers I can not even begin to fathom, mysteriously filled his belly with nutrients.

More studies must be done on how these BoogyPeople live, socialize, interact with us, and their mysterious affect on dogs.

Very interesting experiment. And I suppose it is semi-plausible albeit for two things: The reality of your witnessing Pecatuiah is impossible to confirm. It could have been any number of things: false awakening, OOBE, a queer form of sleep paralysis, or maybe your dog slipped some LSD into your dinner when you weren’t looking (always a possibility :D).

We are also relying entirely on your spoken word. I myself could say that I saw a five hundred foot tall fire-breathing spider waltzing down the city streets while driving home today. But would you believe me?

A third important component here: You let your dog sleep with you every night. (I can appreciate a faithful owner.)

So what I propose is that perhaps my canine brethren ate from the food pans you laid out. That’s what I’d do. I noticed that the urine pan was untouched. And your dog was very content the next day. :) :lol:

Evidence that I have carefully gathered doesn't lie. The Boogyman, or one of them, in my case, "The Travolta" showed up, and then the soups were mostly gone! How do you explain that? Evaporation? I laugh at that idea as a scientist and we all know water molecules will not change states from liquid to gas in such a short time. Sorry to say it, but you are wrong!

Boogyman showed up, soups are gone. It's a direct link!

I am still puzzled about my dog's behavior though and how the Boogyman affects him. Now that I recall my memory is coming back......

I once conducted the same experiment and my dog had just had an operation on his leg, nothing major, but he had stitches. I was visited yet again by the mysterious man of Boogy, "The Travolta" is my specific one that has chosen me, and the next morning all soups were the same volume. The Boogyman did not drink from either. But he did slide the bedpans across the floor because each was in a different position after I woke up. There was a strange, viscous, ecto-plasmic goo on the floor leading from the bedpans to the edge of my sleeping dog's cone that he was wearing. I analyzed it and the DNA proved it was canine in origin.

That proves with science, beyond any reasonable doubt, one simple a final conclusion. The Boogyman is part canine in origin.

Further studies must be conducted, but my evidence doesn't lie!

HAGART wrote: This is obviously a real phenomenon since The Boogyman is reported among all cultures, but simply goes by different names. We all have different names for a tree in different languages, but it's still just as real.

Thank you! Now ain't that logical! 8-)

HAGART wrote: But I did some thinking and there is something I don't understand. How can The Boogyman appear in different bedrooms at the same time across the globe? This can mean one thing and one thing only. There must be many different boogymen. They are all are 'trees' by different names, but even each tree is unique and there are many species.

There may be many supernatural beings out there but the Boogyman is only one. We must remember that trees are still very much physical. The Boogeyman is a metaphysical being that can interact with the physical universe. And since he can manipulate physical things, we are not just talking about the Newtonian level. Pecatuiah has access to things quantum. Remember, physicists accept phenomena like quntum leaps, superpositions, and entanglement in quantum theory because they have no choice. Sounds illogical and counterintuitive, doesn't it? And yet these views must be given weight because they appear to be empirically confirmed. Hence this being can be in several places at once... :ugeek:

In modern-day texting language usage, "lol" is used as a conversation lubricant as well as to convey empathy and maybe sometimes even indicate mild amusement. But this time I can safely say that when I write "laugh out loud," I mean it in its truest, most honest form:

Lol, HAGART.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

deschainXIX wrote:

Summerlander wrote:Wow! So much to explain! LOL!

You can experience a dream sequence that is profoundly vivid without being an oneironaut. In fact, your lack of being a lucid practicioner makes it even more likely that you experience some sort of sleep-induced hallucination that you were not aware was false. Every night billions of people have experiences like this, and some of them are even more terrifying and pseudo-realistic. We must come to realize that these things are figments of our own very potent minds.

I guess we should say that everything I remember from my childhood is a figment of my imagination, too, right? What about the Catholic school I went to? Not real? All my memories are not in the slightest reliable despite the fact that my cousin and my sister also experienced the Boogyman according to them... during the day! Were they hallucinating too? Was my sister lying when she said she was tied up by Pecatuiah? Was my cousin "just hearing things" before he helped me escape? Did we have a collective hallucination? You are yet to prove that what I experienced was a dream or hallucination. Where is your evidence? Did you have access to, and record, my cerebral states at the time? Exactly. Presuppositions, presuppositions... :roll:

deschainXIX wrote: We can explain Pecatuiah's appearance coinciding with ancient mythos by realizing that you had already been given the idea of a boogeyman by your aunt. Your aunt planted the seed, and your mind did the rest--filled in the blank with all your strange experiences. A question to consider: Did you later question and discuss with your cousin the experience? Because if not, there is no way we can know she was actually present. She could very well have been a dream character. Evidence invalid.

To this day my family members confirm that that is what happened. My mother even bought incense to no avail. My aunt was privy to information that isn't available to all. My great grandfather, who was Jewish, had access to Kabbalistic secrets about the nature of reality. There is an orphic kind of knowledge which is elusive to scientists and many sceptical, ordinary people. But some people who do know have been given exalted positions in ultra-secret government departments worldwide. This information is deemed to be inaccessible to the mainstream because mankind as a whole is not ready. They don't want ordinary people dabbling in dangerous matters of the occult. So they conceal them. You may be thinking, "Oh no, Summerlander has turned into a conspiracy theorist..." and tell me that there is no evidence. But think about it, deschainXIX, the evidence I have provided only doesn't appear solid or substantial to you, and many like you, because the conspiracy is that good! What did you expect? An advertisement? :D

deschainXIX wrote: You've yet to provide an explanation for there being such a gaping void in the internet concerning the word "Pecatuiah." Absolutely nothing comes up. If he's so well-known to people, why do I get literally no connections? No one has ever referenced the name.

It wouldn't be on the Internet. That is his real name. The proper way to pronounce it: Pe...(pear)...ca...(path)...tui... (cuisine)...ah...(her). But I believe there is a similar variant in Kimbundu, a Bantu language widely spoken in Angola, where my mother is from. :)

deschainXIX wrote: The boogeyman is nothing more than a scheme devised by generations of parents desperate to scare their children into respectful, listening submission. And this is what happened to you. Your aunt planted that idea within you, and a dark plant has grown to tower over your entire life. It's time to wake up.

And all parents worldwide came up with the same idea? Sounds a bit improbable. A meme passed down the generations that everyone agreed to? The idea that a single metaphysical being reveals himself to many is my Occam's razor to you. You need to wake up. Mainstream science and philosophy has brainwashed you. It is a belief system that gets you to think materialistically at all times. Your doctrine is scepticism and this bias compels you to deny the possibility of the Boogyman at all costs.

deschainXIX wrote: "What is ... the most resilient parasite? Bacteria? A virus? An intestinal worm? An idea. Resilient ... highly contagious. Once an idea has taken hold of the brain it's almost impossible to eradicate. An idea that is fully formed--fully understood--that sticks; right in there somewhere." --Dom Kobb, "Inception"

Yes. Scepticism and materialism has infected your brain. But there arte some contagious ideas that we can be immune to. I am particularly immune to the tenets of Islam. We can still make judgements about what we are exposed to. What I experienced, and many others around me, was enough to convince me. The Boogyman is real. :geek:

deschainXIX wrote: With this argument, are you going to say that Santa Claus is real too? Simply because in other languages there are similar words used to refer to the big man? :D

The legend started somewhere, didn't it? There was indeed a bishop by the name of Nikolaos in the early medieval period of history. It started with something real, you see! But this is a different case. The man died and Santa Claus is mostly folkloric, a concept deliberately coloured for children. The Boogyman is something real. Santa may be used to subtly sway children into submission, fair enough, but there is only the mild threat of not getting any presents. If Christmas is enough to elicit good behaviour in children, why the need of a fake monster that could take them away? The Boogyman is not a parental strategy. It's real.

deschainXIX wrote: Also … where did you get that information about the boogeyman being passed down through your family’s generations? Did your aunt tell you? Because if so, it is unreliable, seeing as it invades upon my previous supposition that all of this is being spun from the tongue of your aunt.

My mother confirmed it and mentioned the secret was passed down the generations while my aunt was telling me about Pecatuiah and what he does. My mother was present at the time, you see. But this means nothing. It does not discredit the story.

deschainXIX wrote: Meditation does not allow you to be detached from your body. The mind and the body are the same, both reigned to the natural materialism that they are; dualism is a pre-scientific notion at best. Even all the astral projection nutcasese believe that you can never be permanently disembodied, because of your close ties to it. Even if you could be disembodied, you wouldn’t be able to exert your will in the physical realm.

I never said it did. But meditation does help one to achieve rare or elusive states of mind. It helped Hang Tuah hone his concentration while he was alive. It made him more attuned to the nature of reality, thus preparing him for the hereafter in terms of spiritual orientation. 8-)

deschainXIX wrote: This is obvious proof that the boogeyman is an irrational figment constructed by parents to reign in their children. To get them to behave. This “spiritual symbiosis” that you detect is actually you misinterpreting the truth that you intuitively perceived: that parents created the boogeyman. Similarly is it with the God-construct. Humans created him, and it is easy to trace his nature as portrayed by holy books to the men who thought him up.

I'm with you on the God delusion. And in some cases parents may indeed threaten their children with the Boogyman whilst believing this one to have been fabricated. But are you going to tell me that the children whose parents didn't care to use supernatural threats have never experienced the Boogyman firsthand? :|

deschainXIX wrote: Is it not apparent to you that it is extremely convenient for Pecatuiah to have visited you the very night your aunt informed you of his existence? Why had you never experienced his terror prior to your aunt warning you of him? I'm genuinely curious to hear about this.

It may seem extremely convenient, an uncanny coincidence, but that's how it happened. People dream about lottery numbers the night before they actually win. Why have I not experienced the Boogyman prior to being exposed to information about him? Well, why not? Is it such an impossible or improbable set of events? It happens all the time. I'd never heard of Mel Gibson until I watched Lethal Weapon. The next day I saw him in London outside the Empire cinema. It happens. What are you getting at? :mrgreen:

deschainXIX wrote: As for telepathy ... :lol: Come on! You're giving your mystery monster more and more superpowers as you go to shoddily patch up the I'm tearing. First he's a ghost, now he's a vampire, now he's a telepath. This is just all far too convenient, my friend. :)

He bends the fabric of space and time. He can hide between the physical and the metaphysical. He is aware of all the quantum mechanical rules. He can easily access dark matter worlds. Baryonic matter is all we know a little bit about and that only constitutes a small percentage. As for telepathy, or mind-entanglement, check out what Michael Persinger has to say on the matter, my friend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6VPpDublg

deschainXIX wrote: Upon this plane of existence, upon the knowable world, we must rely upon what can be obtained within the knowable word. Our world, our reality, is defined solely by our perception. That is the only world that we are wholly certain of, and it is the world that we must live in and act upon. Our suffering and pleasure take place in our reality, so we have to accept certain things to be true in order to improve and be comfortable. Perhaps reality is false … but it is the only reality we know. Look at it this way--all there is in a human being is it’s experience. My experience is all that is truly “real.”

The fact that science is limited to this world is the very reason why our ken will always remain empirically myopic. We need to pay more attention to subjectivity. It will help us to decipher the riddle of consciousness and certain states of mind reveal to us the existence of other dimensions. Even string theory makes this plausible.

deschainXIX wrote: I may be living in a high-complex virtual Petri dish, a programmed computer reality, and my body is in cryostasis in the real world. That doesn’t matter at all. Because what I am experiencing is in this computer simulation--all that is technically real is the computer simulation. I may accept this computer simulation to be false, but I still wouldn’t want a serial killer to abduct me and slowly torture me to death.

Just like you wouldn't want the Boogyman to terrorise you. But at least you admit that the brain in a vat scenario may be the case. Which doesn't stop you from accepting whatever your brain is fed to be real even if it isn't. Do I detect hypocrisy here? Why should I reject the existence of the Boogyman then? :mrgreen:

And then you say:

deschainXIX wrote: And further if I believe all other people in the simulation are capable of experiencing pain and pleasure, then we should by all means employ science and empirical reasoning to make ourselves as ignorantly comfortable in this “world” as possible.

Exactly, it's a belief. In fact, it is known as the theory of mind. You get a strong impression/intuition that solipsism is absurd and therefore false and that other people are sentient like you. You believe other people have minds too because you recognise behavioural features that are similar or identical to yours. But all this perceived information are nothing but mental constructs, representations... You can never be 100% sure! 8-)

Now, I have a theory of Boogyman, so to speak, so why should I reject him? What is the difference between me and you? You see what I'm saying? And wouldn't you want to know about the brain in a vat scenario if that was the case? If a quantum physicist discovered something at the subatomic level which proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we live in a virtual reality --should he conceal his discovery? Shouldn't we seek the truth no matter how uncomfortable it is? And what of the Boogyman? :)

HAGART wrote: That proves that The Boogyman is indeed real, and is a vegan. I did more research on the internet armed with my findings and the rough sketch I drew. It turns out there is a tribe in western Americas in the village of Hollywood that is a Mecca for vegans and I found that many have ties to the cult of Scientology. I was surprised to find out that in their ancient scriptures they speak of a being known as "The Travolta". It comes out 6 times a night, and never on a Saturday because apparently it is sick on those nights. The Google images matched my sketch.

I also discovered that the Boogyman has a strange affect on animals. My dog, who sleeps next to me was acting strange the next day. He seemed more content than usual and wouldn't eat, as if the Boogyman had somehow, through special powers I can not even begin to fathom, mysteriously filled his belly with nutrients.

More studies must be done on how these BoogyPeople live, socialize, interact with us, and their mysterious affect on dogs.

Well, I glad someone is conducting scientific tests on the Boogyman. We need people to take this entity seriously because it is absolutely real. Well done, Hagart. The more evidence we garner the better. :D

Boogyman showed up, soups are gone. It's a direct link!

I am still puzzled about my dog's behavior though and how the Boogyman affects him. Now that I recall my memory is coming back......

Simple and the only logical conclusion! And thank god for your memory. Reliable, isn't it. We need more scientists like you. ;)

deschainXIX wrote:

Summerlander wrote:I'm 100% convinced. The evidence is overwhelming. Too many witnesses!

What witnesses? Provide a document or otherwise piece of literature concerning the existence of Pecatuiah.

So many! Children all over the world, and, sometimes, adults. The majority of adults, however, dismiss Boogyman encounters as nothing but nightmares. Scientists won't even conduct a study for fear of ridicule from their peers. Children certainly won't produce a written account that will be taken at face value. Many believe their experiences were just dreams because their parents tell them so. The unlucky ones who disappeared certainly didn't come back to tell the tale. You see now why the conspirators don't even have to make much effort to conceal the truth. Disinformation and ridicule suffice. :!:

deschainXIX wrote: Pressing upon the navel would hardly silence someone. If anything, surely that would give them incentive to scream louder.

With Pecatuiah anything is possible. It is also possible that he injects some sort of spiritual anaesthetic, or silencing energy, into the navels of his victims. :geek:

Summerlander wrote: I guess we should say that everything I remember from my childhood is a figment of my imagination, too, right? What about the Catholic school I went to? Not real?

Yes, none of that is real, Summerlander. Sorry to break it to you. Perhaps I should elaborate, so as to alleviate the outraged objections I’m sure to receive. Those things are not figments of your imagination; they are figments of your mind. The past is nothing more than an immaterial memory that exists solely in your neural liquids and tissues (an argument could be made that the present is just as immaterial, seeing as it is indeed impossible to live in the present--it takes time for sensory information to be relayed to the brain for decoding and processing). Nothing can be objectively determined solely on the basis of your knowledge of the past. Memory is warped and decayed by the passing of time, and it is based on personal perception, something equally unreliable.

If your memory is so reliable and trustworthy that you would act upon it, I present a question: What did you have for breakfast two weeks and three days ago?

Either way, your memory is not compelling evidence or testimony for the existence of good old Pecatuiah. You could be lying. Or you could be a delusional schizophrenic (I’m drawn toward the latter eventuality :)).

Summerlander wrote: All my memories are not in the slightest reliable despite the fact that my cousin and my sister also experienced the Boogyman according to them... during the day! Were they hallucinating too? Was my sister lying when she said she was tied up by Pecatuiah? Was my cousin "just hearing things" before he helped me escape? Did we have a collective hallucination?

Collective hallucination is not as far-fetched as it sounds. It is plausible and it has certainly happened before, and with malignant implications, as with the present case. Or your siblings could indeed have been lying. Or each of you had separate terrifying experiences derived of childish imagination, fueled by your aunt and mother’s rather cold warnings of Pecatuiah’s visitation.

I would like to share an experience from my own childhood, and know that I tell you this in total honesty of what I remember happening:

I was very young; only tall enough to reach my mother’s waist, probably. One night, during a storm, the power went out. Everything went starkly black. As I was wandering helplessly through the darkness in search of my parents, I found myself standing at the end of the long hallway leading to the bedrooms. As I looked down that dark length with terror in my heart, I suddenly saw a large man wearing a black Civil War-era type cloak walk across the opening at the end of the hallway. I could barely make him out in the darkness, but the moonlight was enough to provide sparse illumination. The apparition turned his head to look at me and I saw his two eyes sort of gleam-flash white. Then he walked out of sight. I began to scream uncontrollably. My parents came bearing flashlights from a different direction, and later they affirmed that neither of them had been back at the end of that hallway during the power outage.

What of this, Summerlander?

I also remember my childhood friends and I somehow coming to believe in all sorts of fantastical creatures like giants, falcons, hobgoblins, fairies, and demons. We would rustle up our little posse and go on nightly fairy-hunts on my father’s estate. The accepting imagination of children is limitless.

Now, I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt that you are not lying in your testimony (which is totally possible).

But the point is that there are many, many possibilities that could explain what happened to you and your family in your childhood. Any number of them could be the correct one. It is impossible to verify, and I am not going to base my belief upon your personal opinion.

Summerlander wrote: You are yet to prove that what I experienced was a dream or hallucination. Where is your evidence? Did you have access to, and record, my cerebral states at the time? Exactly. Presuppositions, presuppositions...

Did you yourself have access to, or record, your own cerebral states at the time? No. The point is not that you were hallucinating. The point is that you could have been hallucinating. As for me providing evidence, the onus lies upon the believer to prove his belief. I’ve seen you write this sentiment before, so I know you’re aware of the concept. I myself can make any number of radical claims about reality, but they're all null and void until I can provide evidence and sound inductive/deductive reasoning based on that evidence.

Summerlander wrote: To this day my family members confirm that that is what happened. My mother even bought incense to no avail. My aunt was privy to information that isn't available to all. My great grandfather, who was Jewish, had access to Kabbalistic secrets about the nature of reality. There is an orphic kind of knowledge which is elusive to scientists and many sceptical, ordinary people.

No. There isn't. There is only traditional delusion. See my above arguments.

Summerlander wrote: ut some people who do know have been given exalted positions in ultra-secret government departments worldwide. This information is deemed to be inaccessible to the mainstream because mankind as a whole is not ready. They don't want ordinary people dabbling in dangerous matters of the occult. So they conceal them. You may be thinking, "Oh no, Summerlander has turned into a conspiracy theorist..." and tell me that there is no evidence. But think about it, deschainXIX, the evidence I have provided only doesn't appear solid or substantial to you, and many like you, because the conspiracy is that good! What did you expect? An advertisement?

“Mankind as a whole is not ready”? What does that mean? Why would they not be ready? This is total and utter bullshit, if I may be frank. :lol: If the matters of the occult are so dangerous, why don’t they try to spread as much consciousness and knowledge among the public, rather than handing that power to a few obscure members of government?

Summerlander wrote: It wouldn't be on the Internet. That is his real name. The proper way to pronounce it: Pe...(pear)...ca...(path)...tui... (cuisine)...ah...(her). But I believe there is a similar variant in Kimbundu, a Bantu language widely spoken in Angola, where my mother is from.

Fascinating. Oh, Summerlander … you’ve marched yourself to your own downfall. :D So, the syllables of Pecatuiah’s name and language are wholly different from the syllabic pronunciations of the English language? How do you know how to spell everything Pecatuiah said to you that first night he visited you? You’ve yet to explain that, by the way. How do you remember every little thing he said? Years later?

Summerlander wrote: And all parents worldwide came up with the same idea? Sounds a bit improbable. A meme passed down the generations that everyone agreed to? The idea that a single metaphysical being reveals himself to many is my Occam's razor to you. You need to wake up. Mainstream science and philosophy has brainwashed you. It is a belief system that gets you to think materialistically at all times. Your doctrine is scepticism and this bias compels you to deny the possibility of the Boogyman at all costs.

Science and philosophy are not belief systems. They are not doctrines or biases either. Neither do they “get you to think materialistically at all times.” Materialism is what years of thinking and observation have left us with. Were there any evidence for something extraneous to the physical realm, scientists would investigate it just as seriously as they would a discovery about extraterrestrial life. There simply is no room for anything more to the physical world; that is why science suggests nothing more than physicalism.

Even if something existed on a metaphysical plane, we would see evidence for it if it had influence on the physical world (as in the instance of your boogeyman).

Suppose you and I are in a room together. Everything inside the room is what exists. Everything outside the room is nonexistence. You are sleeping. I take a gun and shoot myself through the head. The gun discharges, the bullet travels through my skull, through the wall in the room, and there it ceases to exist. You are going to wake up to the scene of my death. The instrument that killed me (the bullet) does not exist, and there is no reason to think it does exist, but there is also the smoking gun in my hand, my dead body with its bifurcated skull, and the hole in the wall where the bullet exited existence.

Anything that has a hand to play in the physical realm will have an abundance of evidence to back it’s existence. A materialistic imprint, or wake, if you will.

Summerlander wrote: Yes. Scepticism and materialism has infected your brain. But there arte some contagious ideas that we can be immune to. I am particularly immune to the tenets of Islam. We can still make judgements about what we are exposed to. What I experienced, and many others around me, was enough to convince me. The Boogyman is real.

Actually we should try to be equally immune to all contagious ideas. Immune as possible, at least. We should think for ourselves and never consider anything with preconceived notions and limits in mind. IE--”the boogeyman is real.” A statement such as this has enormous presumptions and implications that are unfounded.

Summerlander wrote: The legend started somewhere, didn't it? There was indeed a bishop by the name of Nikolaos in the early medieval period of history. It started with something real, you see! But this is a different case. The man died and Santa Claus is mostly folkloric, a concept deliberately coloured for children. The Boogyman is something real. Santa may be used to subtly sway children into submission, fair enough, but there is only the mild threat of not getting any presents. If Christmas is enough to elicit good behaviour in children, why the need of a fake monster that could take them away? The Boogyman is not a parental strategy. It's real.

There are such things as both positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement, Summerlander. There needn’t only exist one. It’s also not as if there exists some international consciousness that thinks to itself, “Well, we only need one fairytale to deceive our children. Why think up another?” Things happen, and they’re pointless.

Summerlander wrote: My mother confirmed it and mentioned the secret was passed down the generations while my aunt was telling me about Pecatuiah and what he does. My mother was present at the time, you see. But this means nothing. It does not discredit the story.

Nor does it credit it in the slightest. Evidence invalid.

Summerlander wrote: It may seem extremely convenient, an uncanny coincidence, but that's how it happened. People dream about lottery numbers the night before they actually win. Why have I not experienced the Boogyman prior to being exposed to information about him? Well, why not? Is it such an impossible or improbable set of events? It happens all the time. I'd never heard of Mel Gibson until I watched Lethal Weapon. The next day I saw him in London outside the Empire cinema. It happens. What are you getting at?

What I am getting at is that the chances suggest your experience was nothing more than a hypnagogic illusion.

Summerlander wrote: He bends the fabric of space and time. He can hide between the physical and the metaphysical. He is aware of all the quantum mechanical rules. He can easily access dark matter worlds. Baryonic matter is all we know a little bit about and that only constitutes a small percentage. As for telepathy, or mind-entanglement, check out what Michael Persinger has to say on the matter, my friend:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l6VPpDublg

Pseudoscience, blatant pseudoscience. Come now, we have standards. I could easily make up any number of magical creatures with such superpowers strategically designed to make them unprovable.

Summerlander wrote: Exactly, it's a belief. In fact, it is known as the theory of mind. You get a strong impression/intuition that solipsism is absurd and therefore false and that other people are sentient like you. You believe other people have minds too because you recognise behavioural features that are similar or identical to yours. But all this perceived information are nothing but mental constructs, representations... You can never be 100% sure!

It’s inherent, instinctual nature. Theory of mind naturally arises in a young child at a certain age, just as puberty does. By this fact we can know that each of us are equally sentient, conscious, and real. I’m a nihilist; I have not yet encountered a circumstance in which I can see construct. There is no such thing as morality or meaning, other than what our nature suggests. It’s a bad truth, but it’s the truth.

Summerlander wrote: Now, I have a theory of Boogyman, so to speak, so why should I reject him? What is the difference between me and you? You see what I'm saying? And wouldn't you want to know about the brain in a vat scenario if that was the case? If a quantum physicist discovered something at the subatomic level which proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that we live in a virtual reality --should he conceal his discovery? Shouldn't we seek the truth no matter how uncomfortable it is? And what of the Boogyman?

You misunderstand me. I don’t think we should be ignorant about the dimensions and circumstances of our reality--that is why I am willing to face the fact that reality is nothing.

Okay, say I am the president or leader of this community of virtual reality people. I would of course want to commission all scientific prowess on unlocking the secrets and nature of our reality. If I knew that we were living in a computer simulation, I would of course share this knowledge with the public people. But I would also philosophize with them, pointing out all of the various things I’ve said here: that our experience is what is important, not our reality, and that we must act here like we are in the real world. I would want people to take their reality seriously (which they would, of course, because they would have no other option).

However, I would never make any objective claims about the nature of reality. I would never say, “This world is real,” like you are saying, “The boogeyman is real.” Instead, I would say, “This world is not real, but our experience within this virtual reality is real, and we must treat it so.” Especially if there was no chance of escaping the virtual reality. If there was any chance of learning more about the nature of the false reality and the outside world, I would commission my top scientists on the problem immediately. I want lucidity, but I also value humanity.

Summerlander wrote: Well, I glad someone is conducting scientific tests on the Boogyman. We need people to take this entity seriously because it is absolutely real. Well done, Hagart. The more evidence we garner the better.

Yes. Evidence. I call for evidence. Give me some, and we will talk. :)

Summerlander wrote: Simple and the only logical conclusion! And thank god for your memory. Reliable, isn't it. We need more scientists like you.

(Lol nice buildit satire.)

Summerlander wrote: So many! Children all over the world, and, sometimes, adults. The majority of adults, however, dismiss Boogyman encounters as nothing but nightmares. Scientists won't even conduct a study for fear of ridicule from their peers. Children certainly won't produce a written account that will be taken at face value. Many believe their experiences were just dreams because their parents tell them so. The unlucky ones who disappeared certainly didn't come back to tell the tale. You see now why the conspirators don't even have to make much effort to conceal the truth. Disinformation and ridicule suffice.

You failed to answer my question. Provide tangible proof. Some paper written somewhere. A testimony, a police report. Something. Anything.

Summerlander wrote: With Pecatuiah anything is possible. It is also possible that he injects some sort of spiritual anaesthetic, or silencing energy, into the navels of his victims.

“With Pecatuiah anything is possible.”

Case in point. :D

The reason why I clearly remember what Pecatuiah said is simple: traumatic experiences have an impact on one's memory. Hence why we sometimes say that we remember certain things that happened years ago like it was yesterday. There is no significant or critical time discrimination between short-term and long-term memory in the brain that determines how strong a mneumonic perception will be. But impact will guarantee clarity and sometimes accuracy. By the looks of it, you were also visited by the Boogyman. Sometimes he appears to children as a warning to not step out of line. His attire is quite telling in congruity with Pecatuiah's fashion sense. What you saw was definitely not a figment of your imagination although I understand your inclination to believe that it was when you look back through the glasses of physicalism.

I shall be back with some evidence to present for all to see. Watch me. B-)

[ Post made via Android ] Image

Actually I would argue that an experience being traumatic and impactful would make it exponentially more likely that the memory is flawed or totally false. Most children don't even remember traumatic experiences; their minds block them out completely as a defense mechanism. But whatever... :D

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

Well, it all depends on the impact of the negative experience and the make-up of the individual. Can this one take it (bear it)? If so, the event is remembered vividly and subjective phobias may develop leading to avoidance strategies in order to preclude the experience of similar events. If the impact is too great,a blockage or neuronal breakdown may indeed eventuate. The organism just isn't ready to remember. It doesn't reach consciousness again. Positive impacts, on the other hand, are remembered. An encounter with the Boogyman can be awe-inspiring and indeed beneficial sometimes if our beloved Pecatuiah thinks the child will make a positive breakthrough.

He won't let you forget! :-D

[ Post made via Android ] Image

Of course! :D

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

Well, here it is! Proof! The Boogyman is trying to take a little boy while he sleeps because earlier he was dangerously larking about in the living room. What did I tell you? Also, Pecatuiah is obviously a master in manipulating the photonics of reality which explains why his ectoplasmic form was not detected by the camera, leading people to believe that it was poltergeist activity. It may also have something to do with temperature bearing on the relationship between metaphysics and physical reality. Take a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbsa1a93JtM

He's also been captured on camera. Here's the Boogyman looking rather dapper. Perhaps he is trying to convey refinement here in his attempt to reassure parents that what they are dealing with is not a complete monster. :)

Image

Oh, wow. Impressive. :D Pretty irresponsible for that father to keep his children in the same house where there's an active poltergeist.

He must be secretly in cahoots with the Boogyman. And the kid must have been sedated. Did you see how he was dragged and didn't even flinch! :-D

[ Post made via Android ] Image

Yeah he must also change children into bean-sack dummies when he takes them, because the kid in the video had different clothes on when he was dragged and he was obviously not an anatomically-correct human child.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

The anomalies you observed can be explained by perturbations in the physical realm modulated by the metaphysical plane of existence where all our qualia reside. So the change of clothes and the anatomical malformation are vivid symptoms reflecting what the sleeping child thinks he's wearing and what he thinks he understand about his own body. So it is possible that what we saw, which was captured by the camera, was an amalgamation of physical body and dream body (or the spirit) as represented by "mentalese." This is the language of qualia, it is the medium with which things mental can be understood and sometimes they can be perceived as things that take presence in the material world in the objective sense.

What makes the presence of such phenomena possible as captured by the camera? You are right to ask! It may have something to do with Bose-Einstein statistics being tampered with by something metaphysical, thus producing anomalous behaviour in quantum mechanical wave-functions where the Pauli Exclusion Principle is made to both apply and not apply. It seems to defy logic that something preternatural could tease the gross level of this dimension but this hasn't been falsified as an explanation either. What you saw were not earmarks of an elaborate hoax (look how sincere the dude seemed in that video!). You have just been exposed to visual evidence of something that scientists struggle to verify as all they can measure is the physical world. What you saw was indicative of supernatural intervention... of the Pecatuiah kind.

The Boogyman, aka Pecatuiah, once Hang Tuah, is real! As real as the visual certainty of that video...:-P

[ Post made via Android ] Image

Huh... I just spent twenty minutes doing a little research. It all adds up. I didn't think I'd ever say this (in fact, I swore I'd tear out my own esophagus if I ever said anything of the sort), but the science is sound. I know acting when I see it ... and the father in that video was NOT acting. That was real. But I still think he was irresponsible to knowingly use his children as bait for collecting evidence. :x

Ah, well. You've got to take risks to prove to the world the truth. Just look at Edward Jenner, who experimented on his own son. Now look how far science and vaccinate medicine have come! The man in the video did the right thing--fighting the good fight and spreading lucidity. An idea may be outrageous, but that doesn't mean it's wrong! :idea:

He was already privy to orphic information about the Boogyman and knew that his son wouldn't be taken (like many that went missing). Just teased. :-D

The idea that the Boogyman is a lie concocted by parents to subdue their children is part of a disinformation campaign by the powers that be to keep the majority of adults from knowing the truth. Ironic, isn't it? Children are right to believe in the reality of the Boogyman in the end. =-O

[ Post made via Android ] Image

It makes sense, if you think about it. Children have not yet been brainwashed by the public school science classes into being small-minded skeptics. When they experience something, they accept it, and that's why they always seem to be eerily aware of what's going on (I'm thinking of the movie "Poltergeist").

I'm going out today to get a food pan to place beside my bed. I don't want to concur the wrath of Pecatuiah. I've already denied his existence, and I bet that pisses him off. :D Also... I'm adopting four children so as to lure him into my domecile where I may collect empirical data. Like I said, I'm convinced; I will stop at no end to seize more evidence to prove to people what is really going on right under their noses.

[ Post made via iPhone ] Image

You have officially joined the club of Pecatuiah truthers, then. May our Boogymanology amass a great body of evidence. Let's ensnare the fiend by displaying what he craves in our domiciles and thereby shatter the common unwarranted disbelief once and for all! :-D

[ Post made via Android ] Image

Summerland when are you going to confess that your the boogyman who has been haunting all those people for centuries :)

You got me...

[ Post made via Android ] Image