Talking with Non LD friends and family
So tonight I was discussing my discovery of the LD community. Of course she had no recollection of any previous conversations I'd had with her describing my dream control. So again I went on about how It started as a kid when I had bad dreams, she said she remembered that because I would sleep walk. But over all I still get that undertone of, "really? We didn't know you did drugs!" attitude I always get from Non LD people I have tried to describe what I do in my sleep. :cry: Have any of you had experiences trying to define the LD experience to friends or family? I pray your results were more receptive than mine have been. :roll:
You have an interesting social group. I can't imagine what it would be like discussing my dreams with friends where I wouldn't flatly be laughed at for the rest of my days and accused of being a druggie. :roll:
Generally I get uninterested results when I discuss the possibilities dreaming has on real life. Even with close family its quite sad really. Just the other day I was speaking with my basketball professor at the college and began to discreetly talk about dreams with him. He told me, "dreams were not important to him because they did not directly deal with his real life". However, he did tell me as I continued to nag him about dreams that he can remember his dreams more so when he eats food later in the evening and then goes to bed. It was quite frustrating talking to him about it as the main point of the conversation was would you prefer being book-smart or common-sense smart? I was thinking if your so common sense smart then you'd know dreams are important.
dreamstudent wrote: Generally I get uninterested results when I discuss the possibilities dreaming has on real life. Even with close family its quite sad really. Just the other day I was speaking with my basketball professor at the college and began to discreetly talk about dreams with him. He told me, "dreams were not important to him because they did not directly deal with his real life". However, he did tell me as I continued to nag him about dreams that he can remember his dreams more so when he eats food later in the evening and then goes to bed. It was quite frustrating talking to him about it as the main point of the conversation was would you prefer being book-smart or common-sense smart? I was thinking if your so common sense smart then you'd know dreams are important.
I think there is an unspoken stigma about discussing these sorts of ideas and concepts because there are some real nut cases out there who sink their teeth into abstract ideas in order to make their hypotheses work in reality. Even in discussing it on this forum I am somewhat guarded because I know how some of this sounds and I am trying very hard to be very open minded to the ideas and interpretation of others. :) Hate for everyone to find out what a mad man I really am. :lol:
nesgirl wrote: Actually Lucid Dreams aren't the only thing that receives controversy. Multimedia Design can be a form of controversy to many. Because designers are known to kill their Multimedia Characters or to do other things in their projects that would considered taboo in reality, people highly criticize them for that. It is even worse for them with discrimination when it comes to religious leaders. Religious leaders will almost always criticize them for doing such evil things, and will imply they are monsters that will be sent to hades because of the things they put in their projects. Hello to the leaders? Multimedia is NOT the real world. It is a reality we create ourselves through special programs, and therefore it shouldn't affect the real world on what we are doing with our projects (most of our designs in fact remain closed off from the public). Also if you decide to make a project based on what you believe in politics, then that can cause taboo as well.
Sounds like you're venting a bit. I'd avoid the church vs Bill Gates discussion in favor of a discussion as to weather the church has benefitted from those who may well have designed the future of man kind in their own Lucid Dreams. ;)
People sleep walk through life thinking they know everything, but fail to realize waking life is only one side of a coin. Dreams are the other aspect of our psyche and to truly understand and know thyself, it is common sense to embrace your dreams and understand them. D'UH!
And knowing thyself has HUGE ramifications on waking life!
I wish I could say that out loud to my family, but I have to bite my tongue and understand that they simply don't get it. I have patience though and we should just all lead by example. I don't have anyone else to turn to either so that's why I come here! :D
Nothing's too crazy for me, buildit. I read your post about 'know thyself', and I didn't reply because all I would say is, "Yes!" ;)
HAGART wrote: Nothing's too crazy for me, buildit. I read your post about 'know thyself', and I didn't reply because all I would say is, "Yes!" ;)
8-) That's cool. Today was an awesome day helping my sister clean out an old wood pile from her property which gave me a chance to talk to her about LD. Her first response was, "oh yeah Mom said you were into some type of dream analysis." :roll: Gotta love family, but then it took seven years for them to get used to my motorcycling. :D
Is that you in your picture, riding the motor cycle?
I have to check myself around family gatherings now because I like to drink a little (and sometimes a lot) which loosens my jaw, and my tongue starts flapping, and I feel like I want to get a bunch of things off my chest, which I had kept suppressed for so long, and start sharing my lucid dreams and all my insights.
I might say something like: "Our brains are a reality machine interpreting nonsensical waves to produce reality as we know it and in a dream it does the same thing, but there are no waves; just subconscious imagination. We can't turn the reality machine off! So what is real? Are we just the universe perceiving itself through a prism of beliefs?"
(Stuff like that... and it's hard to express the ineffable when ideas occur without words... ) :ugeek:
It would get strange responses from many people if I were to say that, and not something we discuss in elevators, around the water cooler at work, or at the dinner table with family. But like I said, nothing is too strange or off-the-wall for me, when even I say seemingly 'crazy' things. :D
HAGART wrote: Is that you in your picture, riding the motor cycle?
I have to check myself around family gatherings now because I like to drink a little (and sometimes a lot) which loosens my jaw, and my tongue starts flapping, and I feel like I want to get a bunch of things off my chest, which I had kept suppressed for so long, and start sharing my lucid dreams and all my insights.
I might say something like: "Our brains are a reality machine interpreting nonsensical waves to produce reality as we know it and in a dream it does the same thing, but there are no waves; just subconscious imagination. We can't turn the reality machine off! So what is real? Are we just the universe perceiving itself through a prism of beliefs?"
(Stuff like that... and it's hard to express the ineffable when ideas occur without words... ) :ugeek:
It would get strange responses from many people if I were to say that, and not something we discuss in elevators, around the water cooler at work, or at the dinner table with family. But like I said, nothing is too strange or off-the-wall for me, when even I say seemingly 'crazy' things. :D
Yeah, I'm the nut on the motorcycle. They are great therapy and if you ever need reality hop on one a get going too fast into a corner. LOL
Interesting perspective on the interpretation of reality by the mind, sounds dam similar to what my hypothesis is that dreams are in large part the subconscious trying to portray reality in order to comprehend all the data we take in. Lots of that data is junk and by sending it thru the dream filter if you will the conscious mind has a chance to analyze it and save the important parts for later use. I'll be a hit of our next family get together as I disclose my interpretation of the universe! :lol: Anyone wanna try to physically ascend to an energy state? ;)
nesgirl wrote: I am not criticizing everyone religious. I just want them to not to try to rule over a person's life and tell them what they can or cannot do, or bully those who are younger or handicapped, threatening them with creepy pasta stories.
That's there job. A study of the religious groups thru history provides more than adequate that they like any other group seek control. But as a scientist, I am also a Christian and believe there is good in both religion and faith. Even if it requires some parmesan cheese on the pasta at times to make everything sit right. :lol: :lol:
nesgirl wrote: Anyone wanna try to physically ascend to an energy state?
Uh no thanks. That sounds too much like an undead ritual, and even in a Lucid Dream I am phobic of the undead (not of the undead themselves, but of the rituals or becoming one of them)
No ritual, just one of my lucid dreams. :D The ideas of conservation of energy and transference between mater and energy states are both scientific theories with a lot of basis in fact. :ugeek: You should try it! Fastest way to travel in space, speed of thought! :P
HAGART wrote: People sleep walk through life thinking they know everything, but fail to realize waking life is only one side of a coin. Dreams are the other aspect of our psyche and to truly understand and know thyself, it is common sense to embrace your dreams and understand them. D'UH!
And knowing thyself has HUGE ramifications on waking life!
I wish I could say that out loud to my family, but I have to bite my tongue and understand that they simply don't get it. I have patience though and we should just all lead by example. I don't have anyone else to turn to either so that's why I come here! :D
Nothing's too crazy for me, buildit. I read your post about 'know thyself', and I didn't reply because all I would say is, "Yes!" ;)
Well said Hagart. I do find myself very disturbed by the fact that people always say that we spend 1/3 of our life sleeping/unconscious when sleeping can in fact mean the very opposite of unconiousness but people just don't understand that. Psychology is considered a psduoscience and that's why the subject of dreaming which is primarily derived of from psychology isn't "credible" in the science world as a "measurable process" which I don't agree with at all. and that's why its not taken seriously by our community I theorize anyway. But im getting off topic it hurts me to know that I cant convince my family that there dreams are important and that they should look into them and try to understand them as it could help solve real life problems for them but I too bite my tongue... ARE WE ALL AS LUCID DREAMERS EVERYONE ON THIS SPECIFIC SUBJECT DOING THE RIGHT THING BY BITING OUR TONGUES AND NOT GETTING ON THE SUBJECT WITH OUR FAMILIES? ID LIKE TO KNOW YOUR OPINIONS THANK YOU.
nesgirl wrote:
buildit wrote:I think there is an unspoken stigma about discussing these sorts of ideas and concepts because there are some real nut cases out there who sink their teeth into abstract ideas in order to make their hypotheses work in reality. Even in discussing it on this forum I am somewhat guarded because I know how some of this sounds and I am trying very hard to be very open minded to the ideas and interpretation of others. :) Hate for everyone to find out what a mad man I really am. :lol:
Actually Lucid Dreams aren't the only thing that receives controversy. Multimedia Design can be a form of controversy to many. Because designers are known to kill their Multimedia Characters or to do other things in their projects that would considered taboo in reality, people highly criticize them for that. It is even worse for them with discrimination when it comes to religious leaders. Religious leaders will almost always criticize them for doing such evil things, and will imply they are monsters that will be sent to hades because of the things they put in their projects. Hello to the leaders? Multimedia is NOT the real world. It is a reality we create ourselves through special programs, and therefore it shouldn't affect the real world on what we are doing with our projects (most of our designs in fact remain closed off from the public). Also if you decide to make a project based on what you believe in politics, then that can cause taboo as well.
Understandable buildit I too was also very cautious at first of this site and what I posted but then I just had to post something that actually meant something to me to find out what these other people knew. I of course looked at a lot of posts and stuff to see if they were legit.
Nesgirl: I dislike how religious leaders also criticize something that isn't directly affiliated with religion to being something evil or bad. im sure there is a religion out there that says tampering with the dream world is evil doing.. :(
Like religion, discussing it with the unwilling will only build animosity and distrust. I guess it is best to wait till someone asks you, "How'd you know / do / think of that?" That may be the time when a receptive mind can understand. ;)
I actually brought this same topic up before somewhere in the past archive here in the off-topic section. Others have too. Buildit wasn't the first.
I say, you can't cram knowledge down someone's throat and you must be patient and considerate. (Perhaps a little smug since we all know better). ;) But don't say it. Keep it to yourself and just give subtle hints from time to time. Your close friends and loved ones will eventually be intrigued and wonder why you are the way you are and they will be the ones asking questions before you even have answers.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. But everyone gets thirsty after a while... ;)
nesgirl wrote:
buildit wrote: No ritual, just one of my lucid dreams. :D The ideas of conservation of energy and transference between mater and energy states are both scientific theories with a lot of basis in fact. :ugeek: You should try it! Fastest way to travel in space, speed of thought! :P
I can already do that in my dream body controlled WILDs, so why would I need to convert myself into energy? I can go to whatever places I want in this WILD within seconds, whether it be places in my hometown, places out of town, places in space, or within the Alien World (not full of aliens, just a different place in my Lucid Dream full of DCs). Why would I want to be just energy if I can use my full dream body in this situation.
Then go with what you know. ;) :D
nesgirl wrote: Anyone wanna try to physically ascend to an energy state?
Uh no thanks. That sounds too much like an undead ritual, and even in a Lucid Dream I am phobic of the undead (not of the undead themselves, but of the rituals or becoming one of them)[/quote]
Nesgirl I am not trying to nag but you recently helped me to show me that my fear was a needless fear to have and that by become lucid in my dreams I can more easily face my fear. Why have you not faced the fear of the ritual for undead in one of your lucid dreams? I thought that masters of dream control like Hagart, you and buildit would be fearless?
I am not a "master". I am a constant pupil.
dreamstudent wrote: Nesgirl I am not trying to nag but you recently helped me to show me that my fear was a needless fear to have and that by become lucid in my dreams I can more easily face my fear. Why have you not faced the fear of the ritual for undead in one of your lucid dreams? I thought that masters of dream control like Hagart, you and buildit would be fearless?
Franklin Roosevelt was who famously said that, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself". The philosophical side of this statement won over his audience and the general public. The reality of it lead thousands to their death in Normandy and other sites across Europe. Only a fool is fearless and only a wise person learns to turn that fear into something that fuels the mind and soul! :D
...
I was so expecting the vision of undead to be something out of friday the 13th or that evil dead tv show that the pokeman thing really threw me. :D Sorry, very different realities can make for great personal irony.
We all have fears don't we? Nesgirl happens to have a phobia which she admits, so I am not out of line by sharing that. I have my own.... for me, it's airplanes. I use to fly in them all the time, but now, I can't. I just hate the claustrophobic feeling of hurling in the air in a metal tube with only 'speed' as your means of staying aloft. What if an engine fails? I see the wings flex and wonder if they will break. I feel like I'm in a rickety, man-made contraption that should not float! (I think too much and it can drive me to fear, and anxiety!)
I can get over it though. I feel the main problem is letting go. I am not the driver, and I am not the pilot. That is the main psychological problem I have. (I have no problems on a bus because it can pull over, but an airplane feels like pure faith in the machine!)
When I want to Rage Against the Machine! 8-) (Music joke)
HAGART wrote: We all have fears don't we? Nesgirl happens to have a phobia which she admits, so I am not out of line by sharing that. I have my own.... for me, it's airplanes. I use to fly in them all the time, but now, I can't. I just hate the claustrophobic feeling of hurling in the air in a metal tube with only 'speed' as your means of staying aloft. What if an engine fails? I see the wings flex and wonder if they will break. I feel like I'm in a rickety, man-made contraption that should not float! (I think too much and it can drive me to fear, and anxiety!)
I can get over it though. I feel the main problem is letting go. I am not the driver, and I am not the pilot. That is the main psychological problem I have. (I have no problems on a bus because it can pull over, but an airplane feels like pure faith in the machine!)
When I want to Rage Against the Machine! 8-) (Music joke)
I totally get that, I learned to fly planes as a kid but being in a jet and being out of control of the aircraft can be unnerving. So I always try to get the window seat. ;)
As for the joke, don't end up with an STP! LOL
What is STP?
And I forgot to mention how my fear relates to this. I get a TON of airplane dreams and being in airports. All NON-lucid, but it's all based on a deep anxiety I have, no doubt. (maybe it's travel-related as well). I think dreams have a purpose and show us what we don't want to see. Don't look away! Write them down and stare your fears in the face!
I don't have a phobia, but certainly a fear. I had a panic attack a few times and that is my only fear now: having a panic attack on a plane. Your fear creates more fear and then if fuels itself, and feeds and grows and becomes it's own (metaphorical) inner demon!
I want to live without fear of any kind. And lucid dreaming and even just dream journaling regular dreams will be a magnifying glass on what we fear most so we can address it and not hide from it. That is the first step.
Invite your 'monster out of the closet', shine a flashlight on it, and talk with it and understand it and then there is nothing to fear anymore. (Easier said than done, but I like that simple analogy).
nesgirl wrote: I might be swimming back to shore or worse, trapped in sewage
No, I'd fear the sewage most. (We've all heard the horror stories!) :D
HAGART wrote: What is STP?
Stone Temple Pilot? ;)
HAGART wrote:
nesgirl wrote:I might be swimming back to shore or worse, trapped in sewage
No, I'd fear the sewage most. (We've all heard the horror stories!) :D
Im kinda germaphobe im not literally scared of germs but I don't like being dirty or getting sick so honestly I think I would almost rather face my fear of being possessed in a dream than having to swim in sewage lmfao... but I read all your replies and I appreciate all your insight.
Buildit: You are so wise... only a fool is fearless but a wise man uses his fear... that's great.
nesgirl wrote:
buildit wrote:HAGART wrote:What is STP?
Stone Temple Pilot? ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojWNcvk6kdo
Okay, I have no idea what that has to do with Stone temple Pilot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOy8kxvVrk
nesgirl wrote:
buildit wrote:
Okay, I have no idea what that has to do with Stone temple Pilot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOy8kxvVrk
Oh I didn't know that you were mentioning a song. See the Stone Temple is a dungeon in the Legend of Zelda. Actually it severely tests a player's height fears as halfway through, you actually flip the dungeon upside down, and can fall really easily. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6qJsXFlFxU
LOL like I said totally different realities. I can see I will have to ask lots of questions and express myself really well around you. ;)
Ok, so STP is Stone Temple Pilots. I remember that song, "Creep", and was a big hit in the 90's. Not to mention Radiohead's "Creep". What's with all the creeps in the 90's! :lol:
But I like to rage against society, the 'machine' if you will.... 8-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUfaJ8RqfOg
(This was the song for the credits of 'The Matrix' if I'm not mistaken...) WAKE UP PEOPLE! :D
HAGART wrote: Ok, so STP is Stone Temple Pilots. I remember that song, "Creep", and was a big hit in the 90's. Not to mention Radiohead's "Creep". What's with all the creeps in the 90's! :lol:
But I like to rage against society, the 'machine' if you will.... 8-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUfaJ8RqfOg
(This was the song for the credits of 'The Matrix' if I'm not mistaken...) WAKE UP PEOPLE! :D
LOL.... creeps. :mrgreen: Rage against the machine is great and yes, Wake up was a perfect song for the matrix. Did anyone else like the concept in the movie Chronicle?
Never heard of, "Chronicle". I should watch that and always love a good recommendation.
I recommend, "Waking Life". I think it will be right up your alley just like myself. 8-)
(we are so off-topic anyway, so who cares?)
HAGART wrote: Never heard of, "Chronicle". I should watch that and always love a good recommendation.
I recommend, "Waking Life". I think it will be right up your alley just like myself. 8-)
(we are so off-topic anyway, so who cares?)
I don't get many new movies but I'll look for that at Walmart.
I guess we could start a new thread of basic BS. :lol: Most the motorcycle forums I am in have at least one general chat thread that is a bit like cheers with more armchair warriors. :D
nesgirl wrote: You talking about movies?
How about this movie?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0lsoPhBu00 Dreamscape is totally cool, and unlike Waking Life, it shows several different forms of how to control a dream. Like the kid having the nightmare realizes he is dreaming, and beheads the monster running after him. There was Dream Sharing involved, and I boo on the main guy for taking advantage of the lady in her dreams who wasn't Lucid whereas he was.
I remember that movie because I kept thinking I'd be invulnerable in that situation having total control! :lol:
Tried to do this; but discovered that most of them have had: spontaneous lucid dreams; OBE; precognitive dreams and the part I'm envious of shared dreams. Who knew this was true we never talk about this stuff!
Snaggle wrote: Tried to do this; but discovered that most of them have had: spontaneous lucid dreams; OBE; precognitive dreams and the part I'm envious of shared dreams. Who knew this was true we never talk about this stuff!
So what your saying is your family or friends were already knee deep and you were just getting your toes wet in LD land? :P
when it comes to this topic. am a lucky guy. i have two friends who know exactly who i am. one of them is very interested in LD even he dont have any experience with LD. sometimes he calls me just to know about my dream experiments and progress. when we get together, we have our world. u gotta be lucky to have that kind of friends to talk with. last Monday when we met, we just sat under a tree and talked about dreams and life for 5 hours straight, precious moments of my life. am not that successful in my life when it comes to earning money, but i earned great friends, a forgotten skill by human kind, and group of good people i can interact with, that includes U . and i am very very happy to say it.