Michael Jackson: Guilty or Innocent?

He didn't have much of a childhood. He burned his scalp shooting a Pepsi commercial. He got hooked on painkillers. He loved to spend time with children and play games.

Lisa Presley claimed she had a sexual relationship with Michael Jackson while they were married. Some say he was gay or asexual. Some accused him of being racist, and, for this reason, he bleached his skin. But then it was found that he had vitiligo.

His mother said he was exploited by certain agents after his fortune and that he was given bad advice during the allegations of child abuse. One of the kids who accused him said Jackson was circumcised but the autopsy revealed a foreskin.

Still, this doesn't mean anything. He admitted to innocently sleeping with kids. A grown man sleeping with so many kids? What is your take on this?

State your opinion and the reasons why... 8-) Edit: Provide evidence if you can if you think people are not aware of it.

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This is very old issue and there is still nothing to be proved.

We can only guess. Nothing to be discussed here.

There are older issues, such as JFK, which are open to speculation. I beg to differ. There is a lot to be discussed here. I would give Jackson the benefit of the doubt but I still wouldn't trust him with my kids.

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Well, you don't need to, anyway. He's gone.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj2pPW_Jf8g

"What's wrong with sharing the love?" What a creep. :lol:

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God bless America and it's Media. It sure did a good job on your minds.

He may be gone but so is JFK, Princess Diana, and Mother Teresa... speaking of which... the famous Albanian nun used to speak of love, too, whenever somebody confronted her.

Her institutions never looked after the needy as well as people believe. Analgesics were not used and needles were shared among patients but never sterilised. (Mother Teresa was against materialism.) A cancer patient was dying in unbearable pain and Mother Teresa whispered, "You are suffering like Christ on the cross, you are closer to him, you feel pain because he's kissing you." The terminally ill patient replied, "Well... tell him to stop kissing me."

Mother Teresa was a fraud, a political weapon, and led a cult of death, suffering and submission. All the while she maintained a good reputation. In contrast to the dying cluttered in her divine lodging , when she had heart problems she checked into the costliest and most sophisticated clinics.

I wonder if something similar, in terms of building trust and an innocent image, was going on with Michael Jackson. He certainly didn't help himself in that interview. Parents who distrust adults with their children are not ignorant. They are wise and cautious. Michael also seemed to have a predilection for sick and vulnerable children and one can't help but think: vulnerable prey for a famous predator?

There is evidence for Gary Glitter and Jimmy Saville. Where is the evidence for Michael Jackson?

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Yeah, Mother Teresa was nothing more than a magic healer from the Middle Ages who did more harm than good who became a super star. Yet most today don't heed Hitchens' brilliant journalism but continue to buy into the meme that she is some great moral figure.

People who are long dead are constantly being discussed, DesertExplorer. There's still some debate on whether Socrates was a real person or not, for example, or whether Nietzsche had syphilis or cancer when he went mad. Et cetera. In many ways, dead people are discussed far more trenchantly and profusely than the living.

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Alright, then.

On the one hand, Michael paid a lot of money to keep himself look innocent, but two questions. How could any parent allow a child molester to sleep with his children for money? And, why Michael would do that, when he knows that he's a superstar and that thing would look bad?

Likely guilty

Evidence against

• fled the country to avoid arrest
• paid hush money to the families of his likely victims while out of the country
• had multiple victims and some still as adults and after his death claim he molested them
• the music industry has a lot of power and influence and Jackson was still hot and a big money maker when accused
• the media was almost 100% behind him and was just as corrupt then as it is now
• the music industry is a hotbed of pedophilia
• his mother thought he did it according to one of his sisters, but had to support him in public because she was dependent upon him
• pedophiles can and do sleep with their adult wives too (they like to breed their victims)

And it really was!

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Post made by Haggart

In his defense I'll bring forth this new evidence for the court, which I heard someone whisper to me: Peter Pan Syndrome. I'm not an expert and need a qualified psychologist to take the stand. Is it a legitimate syndrome or not?

It wouldn't surprise me if someone who was robbed of childhood, and finally became financially independent, would mentally regress and long to fulfill childhood fantasies that they missed out on, such as having a sleep over, or with all his wealth and power, build a personal amusement park and zoo...Name another pedophile that built a childhood fantasy ranch?

No, Haggart, people only regress back into childhood after suffering some major trauma -that was not MJ. That MJ was fun and liked to have fun was obvious; but he loved to have fun with kids and kids not his own – very suspicious and what other playboy besides H. Hefner built an amusement park for lechers stocked with bunnies for him and friends, there's just one Playboy Mansion builder too.

He was guilty of one thing: Being eccentric...

No he was guilty of a lot more than that. His music is full of Satanic symbolism and hand signs he even taught his worshipful fans to do Baphomet fingers. Baphomet is also androgynous, MJ had surgery to look more ladylike and both before and after that was wearing: lipstick; mascara; false eyelashes and plucking his eyebrows, even his claim of vitiligo is suspicious. Vitiligo shows but as irregular blotches not as changing ones whole skin. He was certainly and obviously a Satanist and his general character is about the same as Obama's or Little Finger's from the game of thrones. Having had a best friend who was a Little Finger type I can image any evil as possible from Michael Jackson even if he were not a Satanist.

Here's a Video by someone who is innocent for contrast with MJ, watch her face and then MJ's again -he was anything but innocent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crHnH53fvZw

Post by Summerland You asked how could parents allow a child molester to sleep with their children for money. Let's say, hypothetically, that Michael Jackson really did abuse those kids. By accepting hush-money, that is exactly what the parents did. This is why I said you hit the nail on the head because the moral thing to do would be to indict the abuser and protect the vulnerable no matter the offer. How could those parents be so corrupt? The hush-money offer--which makes the accused look guilty--also makes the plaintiff seem mendacious when accepted.

No money in the world should exonerate a child molester.

No innocent person would have paid hush money to false accusers or have believed they could have successfully damaged his reputation. MJ's paying of hush money was itself a crime (obstruction of justice) as was his flight to prevent arrest and prosecution. The families of his victims were generally poor. They had little hope of justice considering how worshiped MJ was and the certainty of having the best lawyers to defend himself with. Their children would have been traumatized again by testifying just as ordinary rape victims are and they would also have had the added trauma of being attacked by all the MJ fans both their own age and adults – they and their parents were in a completely no win situation.

Conspiracies..

Conspiracies everywhere....

http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i53/5/9/7/frabz-Conspiracies-Conspiracies-everywhere-bc455b.jpg

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Didn't a postmortem examination conclude that he had vitiligo? As a pop icon, he also needed to bleach his skin and use make up to even it out. Let's not forget that his scalp was on fire in front of his fans during a Pepsi commercial stunt back in the '80s--which left him bald and in pain (hence his addiction to painkillers). (I'd say this qualifies as a major trauma, one very 'close to home' as it nearly fried his bean.) :mrgreen:

You can't compare Jackson to Hefner either--two very different people! :-D

The hush-money scenario is not as black and white as you think either, Snaggle, especially when you are as famous or as popular as Michael Jackson was. When the media cooks up something about you, it's not enough to ignore it or to simply say "I didn't do it." You either fight to clear your name at the expense of having your reputation ruined anyway (and with it, possibly, your business), or you follow bad advice by people who depend on you and try to make it go away as quickly as possible thinking that "if it's money they are after, it is money they will get."

The problem with the hush-money solution is that it attracts other predators. After the first allegation, why would any parent send their child to be looked after by Michael Jackson? And what parent, in his or her right mind, would accept a financial settlement from the child molester?

An out-of-court settlement isn't an obstruction of justice. What is an obstruction of justice is when the plaintiff accepts the hush-money in exchange for halting litigation in the knowledge that the defendant is guilty. 8-)

So, I would say that the scenario where Jackson was innocent but afflicted with Peter Pan's syndrome is just as feasible as the one where he was a predatory paedophile. MJ wasn't the first nor the last victim of media defamation. Many lives have been ruined by sensationalist lies or distortions of the truth. Speaking of which...

Michael Jackson, a Satanist? No comment... :-D

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Michael Jackson was not a Satanist. He was an Illuminati. A plethora of You Tube videos prove it by breaking down his opening scene in the "Black or White" video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZfU3M6bq5E

Snaggle wrote: Here's a Video by someone who is innocent for contrast with MJ, watch her face and then MJ's again -he was anything but innocent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crHnH53fvZw

How did that prove anything at all? I wonder if you're being sarcastic like I was with my video claiming he was Illuminati. (I think you're pulling our legs.) She looks more attractive than Michael Jackson, I'll give you that. Don't let your hormones fool you. I bet she's an evil vixen that sacrifices babies to Satan. Who else was it that demanded babies to be sacrificed for them.... Oh yea, GOD! I don't know who to trust.

As for Hugh Hephner, I agree with you on that. Who knows what happens behind closed doors where he has immunity from the law. Wealthy people tend to create sanctuaries to carry out their misconduct. I can only guess what Dolly Parton does in Dollywood.... she always seemed so nice, but I bet she's raping young boys in her hidden sex dungeons. I can read it in her face; We can all tell she's pure evil! :twisted:

Shit, he was! :-D

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I just added more as Summerlander replied. I wont edit again despite that I misspelled, "Hefner".

I've been thinking about it... and I must say, you had me there, Snaggle. I think you're so sarcastic with your deadpan humor it's hard to tell when you're serious or you're joking.

You had to be kidding us! ;)

I'm not sure he was kidding... :mrgreen:

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I personally think he was innocent (though if I had children who could, I certainly wouldn't let them sleep with him!). I know some think he did it cause he didn't act like they would themselves under certain situation. That logic has been proven to be incorrect at times.

Take for example the Australian "the dingo has got my baby" case back in the 1980s.. people thought Lindy Chamberlain did it due to things like she didn't cry over her missing baby (she accepted the baby as being gone from the time the dingo took it). It's now days known a dingo did really take her baby (much evidence at the time was suppressed or not brought up in court as those who thought she was guilty did a bad job with the investigation from the start).

It is obvious Micheal Jackson had issues and his life wasn't all smooth sailing for him. If he didn't have big issues, he wouldn't have multilated his face with so many surgeries. He was a guy who was clearly unhappy.. He had a problem with being who he was.. and probably a problem with being an adult on top of that (due to all the pressure in his childhood?? He didn't get much of a childhood). Is it really surprising he gave the so called victim money to stop a court case? This was a guy who just didn't act normal to start with and yet people judge him on being guilty cause he didn't do the normal thing when put into this situation with the media circus around it.

They weren't nice to him in the media. They saw a big story here and the media would of really played it all out twisting everything he'd done in his life etc ..and we all he acted abnormally in many ways, I'm sure there was probably a lot of stuff which would of looked bad. For all we know he may of innocently frolicked naked with the his young friends but the facts don't even look like that, seeing it is known that they described him naked wrongly.

Most other stories of sexual abuse of famous people, one can see they did it.. I'm sure far more dirt of him would of come out and very quickly to the point it couldn't be denied if he was guilty. He'd been around 100s of boys and had far more opportunities with them then most. One has to wonder if he was a pedofile why wasn't there lots more victims coming forward?

When he was accused that should of brought out every gold digger who thought they saw an opportunity wanting to get their hands on his riches by having their sons make up a story or whatever.

I still don't want to give my opinion and just use evidence. You can all probably guess what I'm leaning toward anyway.

I have 2 You Tube clips, but you don't have to watch them because I'll explain them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roW238dfUUk Child actor, Cory Feldman speaks out about the rampant pedophilia in Hollwood. It's a big dirty secret.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-rtftB-7qs Cory Feldman describes Michael Jackson as "The big brother he never had", and both shared a commonality having been robbed of childhood.

Why wouldn't Cory expose Michael Jackson for being a pedophile if he was so open and honest about pedophilia in the first interview?

The mystery indeed deepens if one assumes that Michael Jackson was a paedophile after having watched that.

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I think he's innocent for the following reasons. -MJ had a amazing way of getting all races together in unity and I think when you have a person with that much power saying things like heal the world and they don't care about us the powers that be have to stop them. We've seen this happen to many great leaders.

-Jordan Chandler (one of the kids that accused MJ) already came out and stated that his father Evan Chandler told him to say these things due to MJ not taking a business proposal Evan presented.

-Evan chandler committed suicide 2 months after MJ died. Guilt perhaps?

-Also keep in my mind that MJ has given over 300 million to charities around the world. Rebuilding children hospitals, it's on record that he's paid for plenty of expensive operations also. I just cant see a person who spent this much time helping doing the things he was accused of. Not saying it cant happen but I find it highly unlikely.

-MJ was acquitted on all accounts. Honestly I don't think the mission was to find him guilty. It was to break his will and tire him out while also slandering his name and legacy. Michael was in the last year of his contract with SONY before he died. If he would've lived to see this contract to the end he would have owned HALF of the music industry. Including the masters to Jonas brothers, Dolly Parton and a crap load of other artist. Him owning half of the music industry especially after being treated the way he was by the same folks he made so much money for was a dangerous thing for SONY and it's owners.

I would go as far as to say he was murdered for the following reasons.

-AIG (The company sponsoring the "THIS IS IT" tour) changed his tour from 10 shows to 50 leaving him exhausted.

-MJ did not hire Conrad Murray as his doctor. Conrad was hired by AIG.

-Of course MJ was worth more dead than alive.

-MJ had stated many times to close friends and family that he felt they were gonna kill him for his music.

Honestly I can go on and on but you get the message.
.

Hmmm... a lot of people complained about AIG. Even his mum. There could be something there.

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BadJet wrote: -Also keep in my mind that MJ has given over 300 million to charities around the world. Rebuilding children hospitals, it's on record that he's paid for plenty of expensive operations also. I just cant see a person who spent this much time helping doing the things he was accused of. Not saying it cant happen but I find it highly unlikely. .

Though I think he was innocent, I don't think that point above in any way would point to someone is probably innocent. I say that as many who abuse children, think they actually "love" the child or children they abused. Some even believe their abuse (so called way they showed caring) was a good thing for the child!! (some honesty themselves think they do it out of love or to actually teach a child something). IF MJ was an abuser, I think this would be the kind of pedofile he would be.

I feel sure he would of never "purposely" harmed a child due to the kind of person he was. People don't have a strong spiritual focus in there music while on the same hand, purposely hurting another.

If he was a paedophile who instigated sexual acts with minors, he was a monster. No excuse. He'd have to be super naive to not have an intimation about the psychological damage to children undergoing molestation.

He could have also been a sadistic sociopath very good at pretending. And there is also the possibility that MJ used "spiritual" music to cover his tracks besides his charity work. MJ was strongly influenced by the funky James Brown. You can see this from his disco album "Off The Wall" all the way to his stage performances to promote "History." Brown, by the way, was influenced by spirituals, blues and gospel to come up with his style. He made it funky. Look at Brown's moves and vocals onstage and then watch MJ.

Even his musical diligence cannot be used to prove his innocence or exonerate him if guilty.

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Summerlander wrote: If he was a paedophile who instigated sexual acts with minors, he was a monster. No excuse. He'd have to be super naive to not have an intimation about the psychological damage to children undergoing molestation.

I wasn't at all excusing him but just trying to point out that he still could of been a pedophile to the other who said he couldn't have been due to him having a good heart due to all his deeds. Some pedophiles are deluded (it though doesn't excuse them but may explain actions which seem out of character to others).

Their sexual orientation simply isn't compatible with societal mores for a good reason. Acting upon their sexual urges brings harm to children besides the obvious judicial repercussions. Any psychological condition which isn't congrous with society and its eudaimonia is bound to be regarded as a disorder. In the case of paedophilia, there aren't many individuals who will admit to having a problem let alone consider therapies to mitigate their unhealthy lust. Instead, most give themselves excuses to sexually offend -- sometimes justifying their molestations as forms of punishment for children who were most likely naughty in the past -- often reasoning that all kids misbehave. Grooming can also be viewed by the sexual predator as a means to offset the abuse, or the abuse is payment for the grooming privileges. Hence the stigma surrounding paedophilia.

If MJ genuinely loved children in a benign way, he would want to know about what would make them happy and safe. He would not engage in risky "loving." He would certainly know about the psychological damage to children if he were to make sexual advances towards them. Not to mention abusing the parents' trust! Let's not forget Jackson's defensive words in the '90s, when he promoted the "Dangerous" album: "I'm totally innocent of any wrongdoing!"

Paedophile or not, he could surely tell right from wrong. In public, people can give to understand that they are aware of ethics. They can even be great moral philosophers! But their ethical knowledge is in no way a promise that they're not evil or that they will never engage in wrongdoing for personal gain.

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HAGART wrote: My true identity has been revealed. Yes, it was me who cleared things up for Desert Explorer while chatting on Skype, and he used my first name.

You see, Micheal Jackson faked his own death, became a lucid dreamer, and has been using the name, HAGART on this forum the whole time. Oh no, I've said too much!

LOL Hagart, you're far too wholesome to be MJ. He was a great entertainer - the best I've ever seen. He was also a malignant narcissist and deeply obscene sexually (like Myley Cyrus) was a Satanist and one on the dark side of the occult and most likely a pedophile.

I come from the future. We know all about Michael Jackson. My world is most Islamic and they have banned music -- MJ's is pretty much banned all over! He was a paedophile. We are 100% sure in all possible universes! :D

Enra Traz wrote: I come from the future. We know all about Michael Jackson. My world is most Islamic and they have banned music -- MJ's is pretty much banned all over! He was a paedophile. We are 100% sure in all possible universes! :D

Enra Traz even seeing from the future one can't know whether or not MJ was a pedophile. Personally I would put the evidence at 50-50 against him with the deciding factors being how he behaved - innocent men don't flee the country until they're fixed the trial against them nor do they pay hush money to vile blackmailers. Summerland MJ spin over his behavior is just typical lying to mitigate his reputation by confusing the gullible.

I can't see whether or not someone is a pedophile as I don't know what it looks like, but I do know what sociopathy looks like and MJ was definitely a sociopath. I also know enough about Satanism to recognize when someone is one - especially when they're as obvious about it as MJ.

How was MJ obvious about his Satanism? Show me what I missed.

Sociopaths hide themselves well, most of the time you wouldn't know it if you knew one. Typically they'll be perfectly ordinary, smiling human beings who fabricate emotions very well and blend in with the herd based on years of experience and observation. They're elusive.

Even if you have a PhD in Psychiatry, I'm doubtful you could diagnose something like an antisocial personality disorder just by watching some music videos and interviews. But maybe you do have one, I don't know! Lol.

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How do you know?

Snaggle wrote: LOL Hagart, you're far too wholesome to be MJ. He was a great entertainer - the best I've ever seen. He was also a malignant narcissist and deeply obscene sexually (like Myley Cyrus) was a Satanist and one on the dark side of the occult and most likely a pedophile.

I hope I entertain you guys, but I won't play with my junk on stage. I just do it as I type here and you people can't see so it's all good.

Miley Cyrus may seem like a demon on stage who's sole purpose is to ruin all music, but I see through it. She's just a child star and was thrown into a situation she wasn't prepared for and listened to her PR representatives too much. "Should I twerk and lick a hammer?"... most sane people would say 'No, that's ridiculous'. But you know what? It works! Her shenanigans, just like that other alien... forget the name.. a Kardash-something, are all talked about around the water cooler.

It works. It's a publicity stunt and Michael Jackson was the master... or maybe a puppet.

I don't believe in all conspiracies, but one truth always rings true: Follow the Money"

I agree. The thing that they can't see is that they will live for a specific amount of time and have to make choices.

After 60 years old, you have made millions of money, but you are grown up and it's easy to see the path that gave you money and you followed. The conclusion is that all this money just came to you and you didn't reach out for it. Then the true regrets start.

You didn't make anything and left nothing behind. You just danced in the zoo and no one will remember you, though you entertained them well and sold yourself to them. Goodbye..

DesertExplorer wrote: You just danced in the zoo and no one will remember you, though you entertained them well and sold yourself to them.

Good line. 8-)

Innocent until proven guilty. And obviously it can never happen.

Guilty until proven innocent... :mrgreen:

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I'm innocent. I don't have any proof though... ;)

He was guilty of bring creepy. :-D

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