I dare you to rate NASA
A huge milestone for NASA, They have dropped a thing from a yoke, And all they have to do now is get it to mars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLx4St7y1_0
I dare you to rate your precious NASA :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
The silence is deafening, why dose this happen every time say stuff :cry: :lol: :lol: :lol:
For many yes, but for me no. Well, maybe. I actually don't care much. Maybe I'll change my mind if someone explains why it is important to them.
I've got an idea, Lets take all that money, And instead building giant fire crackers, use it instead to feed and house the homeless. ;) id value that more than a video of a guy jumping out of a tin can explaining what a big leap for man kind it is, it didn't change anything for me, nor for any of the hungry.
I've got an even better idea. Let's remove the special exemption religious organizations have with taxes, and tax them. Then we can use that tax money to house and feed all the homeless without further restricting the people who are working to better understand the reality we live in!
Cheers! 8-)
Well said! ^^^ :-D
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Prince Demitri wrote: I've got an even better idea. Let's remove the special exemption religious organizations have with taxes, and tax them. Then we can use that tax money to house and feed all the homeless without further restricting the people who are working to better understand the reality we live in!
Cheers! 8-)
Demitri, you took the words right out of my mouth! Haha.. :D
I wanted to say that if NASA is the problem, then why aren't the churches (that we could destroy and build buildings for the homeless), the government that doesn't uses taxes properly and the army that doesn't need to exist either and spend so much money on new weapons (at least in my country).
Another thing I wanted to say is that if NASA was about to save the starving and homeless, then they would not be NASA. :D
Yes, it‘s not like NASA hasn't given us anything but non stick frying pans 8-) But yes id like to see bullshit taxed, its in plentiful supply and rather useless, However the governments have too much money all ready, and havant solved the homeless issue, So it wouldn't do any good, Any way, why do you think they have an exemption? There all the same, Government, Religions, NGO‘s all bull ;)
seanEE wrote: Yes, it‘s not like NASA hasn't given us anything but non stick frying pans 8-)
You're right! NASA has made lots of great contributions to life as we know it today. Teflon is only one of many things that have come from NASA! :D
But yes id like to see bullshit taxed, its in plentiful supply and rather useless, However the governments have too much money all ready, and haven't solved the homeless issue, So it wouldn't do any good.
I'm gonna hafta agree with you on this point. The misallocation of funds by many of the governments around the world is simply stupendous.
Any way, why do you think they have an exemption?
I think churches have tax exemption because there are too many people in power that have a special place in their heart coughpantscough for religious institutions.
Personally, I think faith is a virus that plagues humanity, doesn't matter if it's religious, or whatever. Faith is not a reliable way to discover or know the truth about anything. Sadly, too many people have been mislead to believe faith is a virtue! How sick and twisted is that?
They will never feed the poor. That's not what taxes are for.
And it's an open question whether the moon landing was a hoax.
@ SeanEE:
I've already explained to you that it is you who doesn't understand what 'nothing' means after I've explained it to you a gazillion times. I've also provided the links which you have refused to check. The nothingness you are thinking of is not the vacuum of space or a 'something' that entails time and distance. (As this means a something teeming with particles.) First of all, true nothingness in the world is what lies between two objects attached to each other--there is no time, no space, ergo no distance; I'm talking about the continuation of a something to another something so what do you see between them? Absolutely nothing! This nothing is a concept that only exists in our heads and can only be conveyed by the existence of something.
Now, the state of nothingness is, as I explained before, highly unstable on a quantum level and therefore, the potential for something to arise is enormous. There are subatomic particles that are so ephemeral--having a microscopic existence in both space and time--that humans cannot even contemplate their existence, such as 'virtual' particles in quantum cavitation, as it were. They can seem so irrelevant to our classical existence we could practically regard them as nonexistent. Can you picture that, SeanEE?
Nobody said it was going to be easy to imagine the non-existence (no time, no space) prior to the Big Bang. In fact, it makes no sense to ask what comes before if the Big Bang is to be regarded as the very beginning. Perhaps the Big Bang is only a 'big bounce' from another universe. All we know is that there was a Big Bang, the young universe looked different and was very hot, and expansion continues to this day. Perhaps the real beginning of everything happened so long ago that all traces of it are long gone.
What is important to remember is that science is not making any claims, it has simply led us to realise the cosmic matter we see today diverged from something extremely small and dense, something along the lines of the nature of a black hole which we still know very little about as the standard laws of physics seem to break down within them.
@ Prince Demitri:
I'll reply to the other thread very soon, my friend. You can check out that link regarding free will in the mean time if you like. Let me just say this: even the possible quantum indeterminacy cannot salvage free will because randomness does not equate with freedom. You do not control the quantum--not even the classical inside your brain--and every time you experience an urge to act, there is still a mystery as to where it comes from. Besides, our day-to-day lives entail a Newtonian world of cause-and-effect where predictions can be made if one possesses enough details. In this sense it is deterministic. (We are not fermions inhabiting atomic rungs at the quantum level.) ;-)
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Prince Demitri wrote:
seanE wrote:Im not saying your wrong, I'm saying I don't understand, And all you explanations havant helped. So for me to agree with something I don't understand would make me a a fool.
The best thing you can do is educate yourself on these topics so you can talk about them without looking like a "fool".
Do you agree?
I would take that as an offense anytime of the day. It's really arrogant.
What is nothing, Now theres a question :shock: 1 If two objects are attached to one another there is ''no'' nothing in-between them :mrgreen:
2 your right, the nothingness I'm talking about isn't the vacuum of space, Its the non existence of the concept of reality, Not that I can comprehend that, Or am sure it exists, But its interesting to think about.
3 That is my question, Is nothing only a fragment of our imaginations, Or can we just not comprehend nothing.
4 Yes I can picture that, But I can't say its true for sure because I can't process all the posabiltes, and science of the creation of a cosmos in my little brain. :mrgreen:
5 Ok so if you can't answer what was before the big bang, Or think it was the very start just say so, I'm just curious, and believe its rather important,
6 Question, Do you think there ever was an immeasurable ''time less time'' Where there truly was nothing, if not, How long has this cosmos/bouncing banging stuff been going on?
7 Now we get to the nitty gritty, Dose everything have to have a beginning and an end. i.e. ''the whole lot'' bouncing bangs, and the nothingness to make universes. if so, What was there befor it started, How did it start, what will there be when it ends :o :shock: :shock: :shock:
DesertExplorer wrote:
Prince Demitri wrote:seanE wrote:Im not saying your wrong, I'm saying I don't understand, And all you explanations havant helped. So for me to agree with something I don't understand would make me a a fool.
The best thing you can do is educate yourself on these topics so you can talk about them without looking like a "fool".
Do you agree?
I would take that as an offense anytime of the day. It's really arrogant.
Perhaps it's the use of the word "you" in it? It's written as the collective "you", not as a personal "you". Maybe I could've expressed the question better if I had changed that singular word (and the accompanying pronouns) to "anyone". It would then read as it was intended:
"The best thing anyone can do is educate themselves on these topics so they can talk about them without looking like a "fool".
Perhaps that's better?
Of course, I was replying to what was actually stated, so while that might express what I was intending a bit clearer, it doesn't match up quite as well, grammatically, as a reply. After all, I was talking to Sean about something which is applicable to everyone in the world, about any subject. (Hence why it should've been read as the collective "you", instead of a personal "you", according to proper grammar.)
So why do you feel that's arrogant as opposed to accurate (both topically and grammatically)?
And Sean, I was really not poking fun at you. I don't tend amuse myself in that way, since I have better things to do with my time.
@ SeanEE:
I don't know. Maybe there was a beginning, maybe not. Does infinity make sense to you? Is it logical to say there was no beginning? Think about it deeply before you reply.
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Some interesting questions. Here are a few of my thoughts:
seanE wrote: 3 That is my question, Is nothing only a fragment of our imaginations, Or can we just not comprehend nothing.
I think the concept of total "nothingness" is a figment of our collective imagination which stems from the fact that we (as a species) can comprehend the lack of our needs, and therefore have developed the concept of a lack of everything (which we then call "nothing").
6 Question, Do you think there ever was an immeasurable ''time less time'' Where there truly was nothing, if not, How long has this cosmos/bouncing banging stuff been going on?
I don't think there's ever been "nothing", nor will there ever be. There shall eternally be "something", even tho that "something" is constantly changing. We assign specific markers for which we say "this is the start of this thing" and "that is the end of that thing", but that's for our convenience, so that we can comprehend some of what we experience.
7 Now we get to the nitty gritty, Dose everything have to have a beginning and an end. i.e. ''the whole lot'' bouncing bangs, and the nothingness to make universes.
Nope. Many things have points at which they came to exist in their current form (stars are born from the collection and compression of gasses ignited by fusion, for example), and when their form changes with marked significance (significance which we assign, such as a supernova ending a stars existence), we consider them to have "died", or otherwise cease to be (when in reality, the initial gasses that made the star have been changed and redistributed into space as other particles and types of energy).
The reason we're attached to the idea of beginnings and endings is due to our experience of consciousness. And when it comes to consciousness, no one really knows much about it; even tho we experience it, and entertain many ideas concerning it.
You're right. It's the "you" making it very personal. Forget about the "arrogant" thing.
DesertExplorer wrote: You're right. It's the "you" making it very personal. Forget about the "arrogant" thing.
Okay! :D Misunderstandings happen often, especially over a text based mediums.
Yes, I forgive you Prince, However you really should go off and learn how articulate you're self properly, To avoid future misunderstandings. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Ok, So everything in one form or another has been going on for infinity, I'm not going to pretend that makes sense to me, But I can't think of anything that dose regarding the creation of existence, So I guess thats is one of the more likely theories.
However seeing that I likes screwing with my brain, Humans can't comprehend infinity, and since we will never be able to prove if there is such a thing, it complicates things evan more.
Its this inability to comprehend a simple ''fact?'' Of our existence that leads me to think maybe were missing something. So, could a very smart computer program ever figure out how it came into existence? Not that I'm a believer that consciousness can be engineered, But just for arguments sake, It might know how it first booted up, ''the big bang'' And where it is, But would it ever figure out that it is a computer, Whose calculations are being rune thru circuits on a bored?.
Come to think about it, That wouldn't answer any of my questions any way because then id want to know how the creator was made and you can see where that goes :shock: :lol:
seanE wrote: Yes, I forgive you Prince, However you really should go off and learn how articulate you're self properly, To avoid future misunderstandings. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
First, I don't need forgiveness, but if that makes you feel better, thanks.
Second, I don't see how my being grammatically and topically accurate, vs others that don't have as firm a grasp on the intricacies of language equates to a shortcoming on my part.
What you are asking me to do (in a very smug, condescending, and utterly ironic way) is to dumb down what I say and how so that you can understand me.
Are there lessons somewhere for learning how to be less grammatically accurate? I tried searching Google for "dumb down classes" and didn't get anything helpful. Perhaps you have some suggestions, such as where you got your education, and I might see about enrolling? :mrgreen:
seanE wrote: Ok, So everything in one form or another has been going on for infinity, I'm not going to pretend that makes sense to me, But I can't think of anything that dose regarding the creation of existence, So I guess thats is one of the more likely theories.
However seeing that I likes screwing with my brain, Humans can't comprehend infinity, and since we will never be able to prove if there is such a thing, it complicates things evan more.
Its this inability to comprehend a simple ''fact?'' Of our existence that leads me to think maybe were missing something. So, could a very smart computer program ever figure out how it came into existence? Not that I'm a believer that consciousness can be engineered, But just for arguments sake, It might know how it first booted up, ''the big bang'' And where it is, But would it ever figure out that it is a computer, Whose calculations are being rune thru circuits on a bored?.
Come to think about it, That wouldn't answer any of my questions any way because then id want to know how the creator was made and you can see where that goes :shock: :lol:
These are good insights.
Here's how I think of the topic of something existing eternally: Your last paragraph is talking about what is commonly called "infinite regress", and is often thought of when someone says "God made everything", and the second person says, "Then where did God come from? What made God?", and at some point, the only logical conclusion is that something must be eternal. Believers in God like to call that "eternal something", "God".
I would agree that there's an "eternal something". I would also agree that this "eternal something" is comprised of massive power. What I can't wrap my mind around is why that "eternal something of great power" should be anthropomorphized (having consciousness, desires, a plan, etc.), instead of just being a great "ocean" of power that just does what it does without conscious direction of any kind.
Chemical reactions (and all interactions in physics) just kinda do what they do as a property of what they are, without any conscious direction; so why attribute the need for conscious direction to whatever form of power the "eternal something" is comprised of? Why assign agency to the "eternal something"?
seanE wrote: Yes, I forgive you Prince, However you really should go off and learn how articulate you're self properly, To avoid future misunderstandings. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
This time, spot on. And I would append the following regarding Prince's conduct: meditate and learn to stop yammering. :mrgreen:
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Prince Demitri wrote:
seanE wrote:Yes, I forgive you Prince, However you really should go off and learn how articulate you're self properly, To avoid future misunderstandings. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
First, I don't need forgiveness, but if that makes you feel better, thanks.
Second, I don't see how my being grammatically and topically accurate, vs others that don't have as firm a grasp on the intricacies of language equates to a shortcoming on my part.
What you are asking me to do (in a very smug, condescending, and utterly ironic way) is to dumb down what I say and how so that you can understand me.
Are there lessons somewhere for learning how to be less grammatically accurate? I tried searching Google for "dumb down classes" and didn't get anything helpful. Perhaps you have some suggestions, such as where you got your education, and I might see about enrolling? :mrgreen:
It was a joke Prince, I wasn't insulted in the first place, funy :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Summerlander wrote: And I would append the following regarding Prince's conduct: meditate and learn to stop yammering. :mrgreen:
I'm a published author, and I meditate twice per day. Thanks!
For those who don't meditate: You don't know what you're missing! (Kinda like virgins don't know what they're missing. :twisted: )
Cheers! 8-)
I'm a published author, and I meditate twice per day. Thanks!
Cool! What have you published? 8-) How to be a Dick perhaps? :mrgreen: Or ... How to take offence and Whine Like a Baby :twisted:
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I'm curious Summer... Where's the hostility coming from? Or did you just get up on the wrong side of bed or something? Cheers! 8-)
Yer, What gives, I'm feeling left out, I thought I'm the guy your all meant to hate :mrgreen:
I sincerely hope I havant been a bad influence on Summ. 8-)
I'm pretty sure he's joking.
seanE wrote: Yer, What gives, I'm feeling left out, I thought I'm the guy your all meant to hate :mrgreen:
I don't hate you sean. I don't hate anyone here. :) I do think you're wrong on a number of points, and so I disagree with you. But it's possible that I could be wrong (but that's why we argue and have these discussions, is it not?)
DesertExplorer wrote: I'm pretty sure he's joking.
If he's joking, then he seems to be "joking" in the way many people do when they want to vent actual hostilities they're feeling.
Cheers! 8-)
Your right, He probably has hidden hatred towards you and is letting it out in jokes and silence :lol: Where is he any way? We should all, give us all a virtual hug, To get over all the hostility as of late 8-) :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I'm down with virtual hugs. :P
No way. You did nothing in the first place. I think that he just continues with what it seemed like joke to me as well (Sean forgiving you for nothing). It's perfectly clear to me. I hope you can see it now as well.
Virtual hugs? Hell yeah!!
seanE wrote: I sincerely hope I havant been a bad influence on Summ. 8-)
According to Prince Demitri, we're about the same! :-D
I'll explain. Me and Prince Demitri had a debate about free will. I tried to get him to do his homework but he got lazy and lairy. (Apparently, what applies to you when it comes to research and education doesn't apply to him.)
Then I reminded him that he used to be a former pastor and he started crying even though it's true. After that, I just left him alone with his silly thoughts. I won't debate with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. He may know about NASA, quantum theory and, erm, NLP, but when it comes to free will he talks out of his arse. :mrgreen:
As for hatred ... nah, I don't hate him. I feel sorry for him. He's been PMing me to express his concerns about the possibility that he could be banned as an oddball and then asked me if I could stay in touch via email and be his friend. I'm just trying to make him more self-aware. For someone who meditates twice a day, his ego is quite firm. Perhaps he should try three times a day. :mrgreen:
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Wow Summer, I didn't think you were that butthurt about it all.
Here's a few counterpoints to help everyone determine the truth for themselves...
Summer still can't wrap his brain around the fact that our "debate" wasn't about free will, it was only about determinism (and he never could comprehend my position, no matter how much he tried). I invite everyone to have a read yourself, and you'll easily see why he's butthurt about it all. Here's the start of the thread:
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17363
In it I even said that what applies to sean applies to me as well, and everyone else. Unfortunately I think Summer only read what he wanted to read instead of what was actually there.
I even tried to explain that it wasn't his reminding me that I used to be a pastor that was the issue, but the context in which he was trying to say that I was using magical/religious thinking to base my argument on. He even said as much later on, and I even explained that to him too just to be sure it got thru to him (spoiler: It still didn't). But as he has demonstrated, he only understands what he wants to.
As for crying, I made a joke (at my own expense), to keep some humor in the discussion, and Summer obviously didn't get it. So sad really, as I think he's otherwise a very intelligent guy (if a bit willfully oblivious to concepts which don't agree with him).
Finally, I PM'ed him well before that discussion began as someone I respected, and wanted to make sure he had a way to contact me outside of the forum "just in case" I got banned for anything I say that might offend the wrong person (as that can happen sometimes).
I'm actually a bit disheartened that he has decided to stoop so low as to try a PR smear campaign against me here. You were respectable Summer, why'd you throw that way?
Now that the reality of the situation has been made known, I encourage everyone who cares to read the thread I gave above. It makes it very clear why Summer is so butthurt at me right now.
I get the impression Summer just isn't used to anyone else being able to formulate a better argument than he can. Unfortunately, I think it also means that I'll probably not focus so much on replying to him after this. Sad really, since I was having a good time, and thought it was a good decision.
Instead, I'll focus on my other project and chatting with people who can do more than act mature, but rather, can be mature.
You're all smart people, so go read the thread and tell us what you think, k?
Cheers! 8-)
Prince Demitri wrote: Wow Summer, I didn't think you were that butthurt about it all.
LoL! Butthurt ... :mrgreen:
As though I'm the one who claims to be offended on that thread. Do pray tell us about that! (No pun intended, honest ... or maybe a little :lol: .) Ask yourself who you're really describing, my friend.
Yes, folks, feel free to read time and again the tedious Demitri moaning about having to read links provided by others (and I'm the one who only reads what he wants) and see who makes a joke first about killing in dreams as an atheist. (One wonders why he felt the need to bring more humour into the equation.) :-D
I've got no time for specious frauds who evade challenges and come up with sham arguments. (Especially when they have been given plenty of chances to reply, indeed with intellect, instead of lazy phrases and no cognitive effort--such as claiming decision-making is an example of free will. Go and see for yourselves! And yet this former pastor claims the argument was never about free will!) :-D
Quite dishonest, really, and relying on the hope--or faith? :mrgreen: --that people don't really care and won't bother to check our dialectic chaos. 8-)
I love this quote which is always redolent of that great discussion we once had which Demitri never bothered to check:
'If the laws of nature do not strike most of us as incompatible with free will, that is because we have not imagined how human behaviour would appear if all cause-and-effect relationships were understood.'--Sam Harris
Hell, here's another: :-D
'Men are conscious of their desire and unaware of the causes by which their desires are determined.'--Benedict de Spinoza
And in his famous Ethics, he writes:
'The infant believes that it is by free will that it seeks the breast; the angry boy believes that by free will he wishes vengeance; the timid man thinks it is with free will he seeks flight; the drunkard believes that by free command of his mind he speaks the things which when sober he wishes he had left unsaid. All believe that they speak by free command of the mind, whilst, in truth, they have no power to restrain the impulse which they have to speak.'
(By the way, let us know what you published, dear Prince!)
As for determinism ... Demitri's loquacity is still flawed as he seems to think that quantum weirdness happens on a grand scale--never mind cause-and-effect. (If only he could properly concede the relationship between influence and determinism.) Stick to NLP, and your former fraudster days of cold-reading and deceiving the masses. :twisted:
Prince Demitri wrote: You're all smart people, so go read the thread and tell us what you think, k?
Does this include SeanEE? Or do you still regard him as you've expressed before (both here and in private), Mr Mackey? Or is it David Van Driessen from Beavis and Butthead? Butthurt? (Sorry, but that's how I picture you every time you say 'k'.) :mrgreen:
Prince Demitri wrote: Finally, I PM'ed him well before that discussion began as someone I respected, and wanted to make sure he had a way to contact me outside of the forum "just in case" I got banned for anything I say that might offend the wrong person (as that can happen sometimes).
It's hilarious and intriguing how you felt the need to specify that detail when nobody claimed otherwise; but I can understand your need to save face. I have also noticed how you attempt to construct sentences to convey falsehoods in the minds of readers by implying that I was the one who intended to contact you and you facilitated that! Is this your NLP in action? Very transparent! I suppose it's your way of holding onto to potential friends after having been banned before. At the same time, your words betray what you really think of others in your narcissism and undeniable God complex by employing phrasal entities such as 'wrong person'. :-)
Prince Demitri wrote: I get the impression Summer just isn't used to anyone else being able to formulate a better argument than he can.
Guys, have you heard of David Wegner's thought experiment concerning thoughts which you try to avoid--tied to 'you spot it you got it' syndrome? This is Demitri's Shadow projecting:
I get the impression Prince Demitri** just isn't used to anyone else being able to formulate a better argument than him.** :mrgreen:
The only way he'll say that you are intelligent is when you agree with him. The only way you can be mature is when you respect everything he does. And he only wants you to talk to him so that he can find things you don't agree on in a bid to forever assert himself. And this isn't me projecting as you can check the link above and see how he can't wait for us to disagree and how glad he is that he had finally found something we disagree on. :-D
On being offended, Demitri, let me leave you with a quote from a wise man who was a great author and once fought against the forces of fascism in Spain:
'Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.'--George Orwell
Yeah, cheers! M-kay? 8-)
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