Do you believe in a multiverse?
After reading some more of the religous topic I have decided to do an interesting poll that should help people understand what a belief is, I think this is an interesting topic to do it on.
If you dont know what the multiverse theory is, just look it up on wiki or something. Basically it says our universe is one of infinitely many, each with their own physical laws slightly different, and that we happen to be in ours because our physical laws supports "life".
Heres the interesting part, how do we go about saying whether we believe in it or not? We will never get any proof for this theory as the universes are distinct (in theory) and cannot be observed. We cannot get any scientific evidence for their existence, yet can we still say we can believe in them? Personally I do, I think its bizarre that the only thing in existence is our sole universe, I guess its more of an intuitive argument.
Also its a pretty harmless belief, it has no influence on my life as it doesnt change my perspective or goals in this universe, and it doesnt change my perspective on the afterlife.
Heres the interesting part, how do we go about saying whether we believe in it or not
None of the above.....
I had the thought in quotes and then read it in your post. I dont believe or not believe and that is not fence sitting. I am open minded and so cant say yes or not as we are taking about belief not fact. So I have made my mind up both ways - yes and no :D
Recently, scientists have arrived at the conclusion that their inflation theory also predicts an infinite number of different universes and all occurring an infinite number of times!!! Imagine that! Of course, the maths will support this but getting the proof may be harder.
Perhaps the discovery of the Higgs' boson or something like it with all its properties may have something definite to say about the subject. There has also been talks of sending a space probe to a black hole - where the known laws of physical would seem to fall apart.
Who knows, perhaps black holes lead to other universes. There is a strong argument for the idea that our big bang arose from a black hole in another universe and that our black holes are giving rise to other universes in different space-time fabrics. Consider the possibilities. There is no shame in being open to these scenarios.
Also, these ideas of existence and infinity shouldn't affect whether there is an afterlife or not.
i believe our universe was created out of the destruction of a prior one , kinda like a pheonix. but yeah scientist have hypothisedes that after a universes " Big crunch" it creates another universe
Peter wrote:
Heres the interesting part, how do we go about saying whether we believe in it or not
None of the above.....
I had the thought in quotes and then read it in your post. I dont believe or not believe and that is not fence sitting. I am open minded and so cant say yes or not as we are taking about belief not fact. So I have made my mind up both ways - yes and no :D
I agree.
There's actually no religion that goes against it. They didn't understand stuff like this thousands of years ago.
It's far more likely than not that there is a multiverse. To assume the universe we occupy is the only one is quite naive in the grand scheme of possibilities.
torakrubik wrote: It's far more likely than not that there is a multiverse. To assume the universe we occupy is the only one is quite naive in the grand scheme of possibilities.
Same could be said about anything...
I have to believe in the multiverse.
Wait, let me rephrase that: I NEED to believe that somewhere I'm actually Batman.
...it gets me through the day. :lol:
Something is nothing and nothing is something
You'd think my statement above is somewhat paradoxical, or nonsensical even but something rings true. Read it forwards and backwards and it is exactly the same.
Indeed, anything could be said about anything
Anything about said be could anything Anything about said be could same About anything said could be same
Nah, it doesn't work...
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I'm sorry, I'm just messing :mrgreen:
ps. somewhere I need to believe that I'm Jigsaw or Darth Vader.
Ty8200 wrote: What shape is the universe? Haha, probably lots of shapes i figured sphericle because im assuming after the big bang the universe expanded equally in all directions.
Apparently its flat
Jack Reacher wrote: Apparently its flat
Yeah, like the earth :lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe
Jack Reacher wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe
I'm not arguing that the belief that the universe is flat is out there, but I bet in a few years the universe will be a square, or octopus shaped. Just sayin'.
Ty8200 wrote:
Jack Reacher wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe
I'm not arguing that the belief that the universe is flat is out there, but I bet in a few years the universe will be a square, or octopus shaped. Just sayin'.
No. It will stay the same shape.
WildCat23 wrote:
Ty8200 wrote:Jack Reacher wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape_of_the_Universe
I'm not arguing that the belief that the universe is flat is out there, but I bet in a few years the universe will be a square, or octopus shaped. Just sayin'.
No. It will stay the same shape.
Haha, yeah right. This is science saying this, which is constantly changing. Just a little while ago, you'd be insane to believe in the atom. I'm sure we'll eventually "prove" that the universe is really just sketch on a piece of paper.
Jack Reacher wrote: Apparently its flat i don't get that, how is it flat i mean we precieve three dimensions i dont see how it could be "flat". at first i thought you guys were joking but then i saw the wikipedia page so i was kinda surprised
I did a phsyics course in astronomy at university as a general education paper, but yeah im not going to even bother pretending I understand it, but heres what I got from it.
Its almost flat, the critical density value is extremely close to 0. I think it has something to do with whether the universe is open or closed, open being infinite, closed being finite.
If you are interested you should wiki physical cosmology, im reading a couple of articles from the portal every few days.
Jack Reacher wrote: Its almost flat, the critical density value is extremely close to 0. I think it has something to do with whether the universe is open or closed, open being infinite, closed being finite. i see, it's flat like a piece of paper is flat - almost flat
SGraham wrote:
Jack Reacher wrote:Its almost flat, the critical density value is extremely close to 0. I think it has something to do with whether the universe is open or closed, open being infinite, closed being finite. i see, it's flat like a piece of paper is flat - almost flat
Haha, turns out I was right! It really is just a piece of paper!!! :lol:
...anyway this also relates to multiverse theory. Its strange that the density just happens to be so close to zero, that its finely tuned to this value. Any other value and the universe would be a completely different shape due to inflation. The anthropic principle suggests that there are multiple universes each with a different critical value, and that all of them that arent flat dont have the right conditions to form stars, planets, and thus life.
So it isnt a coincidence that the universe happens to be flat, because if it wasnt we wouldnt be around to realise that.
Jack Reacher wrote: ...anyway this also relates to multiverse theory. Its strange that the density just happens to be so close to zero, that its finely tuned to this value. Any other value and the universe would be a completely different shape due to inflation. The anthropic principle suggests that there are multiple universes each with a different critical value, and that all of them that arent flat dont have the right conditions to form stars, planets, and thus life.
So it isnt a coincidence that the universe happens to be flat, because if it wasnt we wouldnt be around to realise that.
But I don't get something. If the universe is flat, then that would mean everything in the universe must be flat as well, and didn't we prove the earth and other planets aren't? We sailed to the edge and didn't fall off. Well, we put a stick in the ground and observed the shadow, same difference.
Ty8200 wrote: But I don't get something. If the universe is flat, then that would mean everything in the universe must be flat as well,...
no...
WildCat23 wrote:
Ty8200 wrote:But I don't get something. If the universe is flat, then that would mean everything in the universe must be flat as well,...
no...
Why? And please don't say "because".
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_our_universe_flat I think it isn't flat... so do a lot of other people.
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jamjam wrote: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_our_universe_flat I think it isn't flat... so do a lot of other people.
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No one really knows. I'm not going to argue one way or another, but no matter how many people think of anything, it doesn't make it true.
Ty8200 wrote:
jamjam wrote:http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_our_universe_flat I think it isn't flat... so do a lot of other people.
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No one really knows. I'm not going to argue one way or another, but no matter how many people think of anything, it doesn't make it true. No one really knows... YET!
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Do you believe in a multiverse?
The answer is simple: In exactly one half of the existing universes I believe, in the other half, I don't. :)
But seriously, how do we even know that the universe we experience exists? We think that everything we experience with our 5 senses is absolute, but our universe must be created by our brains. To a worm, the inside of an apple is the universe.
I would have voted 'none of the above' if that had been in option, as is I voted 'no man that's wack'.
lucidinthe sky wrote: Do you believe in a multiverse?
The answer is simple: In exactly one half of the existing universes I believe, in the other half, I don't. :)
But seriously, how do we even know that the universe we experience exists? We think that everything we experience with our 5 senses is absolute, but our universe must be created by our brains. To a worm, the inside of an apple is the universe.
I dont think anyone thinks our experiences are absolute, but I think the universe does exist because if it didnt, we wouldnt be able to experience it would we? I dont think the actual universe is created by our brains, but the experience of it is, thats becoming pretty much general knowledge now.
lucidinthe sky wrote: Do you believe in a multiverse?
The answer is simple: In exactly one half of the existing universes I believe, in the other half, I don't. :)
But seriously, how do we even know that the universe we experience exists? We think that everything we experience with our 5 senses is absolute, but our universe must be created by our brains. To a worm, the inside of an apple is the universe.
Yay, finally found someone on the same page as me!
Heres an interesting question to revive the topic. In other universes with different physical laws, do you think geometry will be the same? In other words, will there still be lines and such, or will there be completely different shapes and laws of nature? For instance could there be triangles with angles that dont add to 180 degrees, the shortest distance between two points might not be a straight line, or maybe it will be impossible to imagine what anything looks like as it will be a different species with a different brain?
OR
Is it impossible for the laws of geometry to be different, no matter what universe you are in? To take it further, are the laws of nature the same everywhere?
Jack Reacher wrote: Heres an interesting question to revive the topic. In other universes with different physical laws, do you think geometry will be the same? In other words, will there still be lines and such, or will there be completely different shapes and laws of nature? For instance could there be triangles with angles that dont add to 180 degrees, the shortest distance between two points might not be a straight line, or maybe it will be impossible to imagine what anything looks like as it will be a different species with a different brain?
OR
Is it impossible for the laws of geometry to be different, no matter what universe you are in? To take it further, are the laws of nature the same everywhere?
Personally I think by definition a different universe CAN have completely different logistics and geometry.
torakrubik wrote: Is it impossible for the laws of geometry to be different, no matter what universe you are in? To take it further, are the laws of nature the same everywhere?
It makes sense to me that the laws can be different because even though we think of our physical reality to be the absolute true reality, in fact it all may be completely arbitary. Why not? You could come up with a different set of rules by which everything functions and then have come up with an entire "scientific" system to "prove" that they are indeed true and correct including ways to "prove" ;) them, then you have another reality that has laws that can be proven and of course it follows that there will be many individuals that will lay down their lives in support of these truths. They will be convinced because it can be proven of course. Many people will swear by whatever that this is the only true reality that could exist and will be convinced.
It would be funny to visit one of these places and then we woiuld say "Wow, these people are so messed up! They really believe that! I'm so glad we know the real truth!!!"
Just something to spice up the topic again, here is a question that doesnt necessarily require an answer, just something for you to think about.
Where is the universe? You may assume that there is just one universe ours. PIcture the entire thing in space and ask, where is all that?
The problem I have with considering "where is the universe" is that of reference. It's hard to define the location of anything without a reference point. So if you're on the Earth, you say the ground is down in reference to my head when I'm in an upright position and up is in the opposite direction. If you are floating around in space, which way is up or down? If you take your computer and examine it, from the outside of it which is your reference point, you can define the entire thing because you can see it from the outside from any perspective. But what if you were inside it? How would you be able to define it's size, shape and location?
Wanted to add my latest thoughts on this topic.
Lately I've been considering this as a possibility. Suppose everything in the universe is made of exactly the same thing, but having the possibility to be anything depending on the instructions. So nothing is defined initially, and can be anything. Sort of a universe of pixels, like your computer screen. On your screen, each pixel can be any color and brightness. The picture on your screen can be anything, but it has a definition based on instructions (information) So when we watch a movie we see a picture of something moving, but in reality we are seeing the movement of information.
So based on that idea, the multiverse would be the undefined state of all possibilities instead of separate universes based on events. Information defines it.
Hopefully this makes sense, but the whole concept is just beginning to formulate for me so I'm still working on it. I've been reading about physicists who have concluded that the universe is made of information, it's a very interesting concept.