The Greatest Powers of Lucid Dreaming.
"If you can dream it, you can do it" -
This is a quote many have heard and it is 100% true for a select few of us, those few are lucid dreamers, because we can consciously dream thus for we really can do it. We HAVE DONE "IT" and we CAN DO "IT" again and again. If everyone was conscious enough in life to Lucid Dream: then some of the greatest scientists in the world could of taken the easy way out solving advanced algorithms in an induced lucid dream where they could physically see an algorithm in actual motion or perhaps project the problem on a 1000 ft. wide 1000 ft. high board and create an advanced calculator that doesn't exist to help them and come up with the answer! Or another example maybe developing an airplane or a car from the ground up and physically touching and feeling the texture and designs you have imagined! These are things that WE, Lucid Dreamers can do, that no-one else can so please hear me out, and think beyond the limitations of todays society..
There is so much violence in the human race, must we drag that into our dreams? The dream world gives infinite possibilities and after careful consideration and investigating I noticed a very sad and yet troubling problem among the Lucid Dreamers among us. It seems as though a vast majority of the posts on this forum involving either 'Killing LD's or 'LD Powers' etc. etc. are either indirectly and directly associated with violence. We Lucid Dreamers, WE, have a special gift guys and girls (Nesgirl). Can we not use "this special gift" if you will (I am not saying Lucid Dreaming is a gift from a Creator or anything, just a general statement to empower you to understand the rarity of people WHO CAN LUCID DREAM), to better understand this life and the concepts that are all around us? Perhaps, trying a power that isn't destructive and maybe even oh I don't know, ORIGINAL OR CREATIVE? For example: I myself am going to try in a Lucid Dream where I project a screen in front of me (much like a holographic T.V. monitor that will follow my face where I go and I can look at it to see what's on the screen) and put down all my ideas of what I want to do in my Lucid Dreams, BECAUSE I KNOW EVERY SINGLE CONSISTENT-LUCID-DREAMER ON THIS FORUM OR IN GENERAL HAS A LIST INSIDE THERE MIND OR WRITTEN DOWN OF THINGS THEY WOULD LIKE TO TRY, DO, OR EXPERIMENT WITH IN THERE LUCID DREAMS. Do you see how beneficial an idea like a screen that tells you your list of things you want to do INSIDE the dream can be? VERY VERY VERY BENEIFICIAL, if we put some effort into a list of very beneficial powers that could create things or design things RATHER THAN DESTROY, COULD WE NOT TEST THE LIMITS AND BOUNDARIES OF LUCID DREAMING? COULD WE NOT BRING OUR CREATIONS OR THOUGHTS FROM THE DREAM WORLD INTO THE REAL WORLD? LET US TEST THE BOUNDARIES AND STRETCH THE LIMITS OF LUCID DREAMING, LETS GO BEYOND THE LIMITS OF WHAT WE KNOW AND GO INTO THE UNKNOWN, TOGETHER... TOGETHER.
I am open to constructive criticism and your opinions as I value any and all Lucid Dreamers ideas, thanks everyone.
Please feel free to share your ideas on Constructive Super Powers:
Why do you care what everyone else does in their lucid dreams? Does it affect you in any way? Does it affect anyone at all? No.
Can you provide any real reason to abstain from violence in lucid dreaming? From what I could see, you only said using lucid dreaming as a catharsis (or artful purging) for primal human violence is wrong, but you didn't give any reason as to why it is wrong. Undoubtedly no one uses lucid dreaming solely for destruction--but there is nothing wrong with creating catharses. If you think anything done in lucid dreaming is condemnable, you're condemning people for thought-crime, and that is an incorrect position.
Lucid dreaming is the one place where we can destroy without repercussion and (more importantly) without hurting anyone. We are free from the constraints of empathy in a lucid dream. So of course most people are going to use it a place to vent--especially since building things is incredibly difficult; as you know, dreams are unstable and inconsistent as far as the laws that apply in reality.
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deschainXIX wrote: Why do you care what everyone else does in their lucid dreams? Does it affect you in any way? Does it affect anyone at all? No.
Can you provide any real reason to abstain from violence in lucid dreaming? From what I could see, you only said using lucid dreaming as a catharsis (or artful purging) for primal human violence is wrong, but you didn't give any reason as to why it is wrong. Undoubtedly no one uses lucid dreaming solely for destruction--but there is nothing wrong with creating catharses. If you think anything done in lucid dreaming is condemnable, you're condemning people for thought-crime, and that is an incorrect position.
Lucid dreaming is the one place where we can destroy without repercussion and (more importantly) without hurting anyone. We are free from the constraints of empathy in a lucid dream. So of course most people are going to use it a place to vent--especially since building things is incredibly difficult; as you know, dreams are unstable and inconsistent as far as the laws that apply in reality.
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No it doesn't affect them to do violent things in their dreams, and your right I suppose it does seem a bit like I am condemning people who are violent in there Lucid Dreams. I suppose in some aspects I did create a negative outlook on those who are so violent. Your right it doesnt do any harm to anyone or anything, and it does allow for a release 'free of empathy'. But what else do we gain from violently killing a DC besides a 'release' yes do it a few times but how many times do you need to do this before enough is enough? After a while I can see a negative effect occur as an LDer continues to release his emotions in the dream world, they could become obsessed with the grotesque violence and then that may be all they like to do in a Lucid Dream which in my mind would be a waste of an ability not a lot of people have. Why not be violent in the real world where you have your limitations, go hunting or join infantry marines? It seems to me we lucid dreamers would be better off addressing our need for violence in the real world rather than the world that unleashes infinite potential. There are even unviolent ways to fulfill those emotions that need release one such example of the top of my head is a regular meditative habit. Which five minutes a day can make a difference.
I know it seems a little far outreached what I am asking especially since as you pointed out a great fact about lding is that they are relatively unstable considering a lot of factors: are you comfortable where you sleep? Is there too much light? Etc. Etc.
I'm simply saying that the select few of us in the world that can LD which there is a very very small percent have the ability to multitask at a level that humans in the physical world could never 'dream' of being capable of, we have limitless potential and yet there is an abundance for a violent type of lucid dream, that is surprisingly a favorite of majority of people on this site. Although my reasons are a bit vague, they are in both this reply and the post above, take a second to look and think wow when I say hello to a person I have never met how often does lucid dreaming come up in our discussion this could be true even with close friends, family, relatives, you can choose to deny the obvious or accept it we lucid dreamers are a select few. I'm suggesting that yes, there are better uses for LDs than some other uses.
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After a while I can see a negative effect occur as an LDer continues to release his emotions in the dream world, they could become obsessed with the grotesque violence and then that may be all they like to do in a Lucid Dream which in my mind would be a waste of an ability not a lot of people have. Why not be violent in the real world where you have your limitations, go hunting or join infantry marines? It seems to me we lucid dreamers would be better off addressing our need for violence in the real world rather than the world that unleashes infinite potential.
Then if you're hunting or joining the marines, that takes a lot of time compared to lucid dreaming. Hunting requires buying the supplies when in a dream I just pull it out of my pocket, then have to be patient and track a target, it is much more involved then just making a crumbled temple, seeing Hydra come out of it and defeating it in a majestic manner. Marines is literally dedicating a section of your life, it's not the answer unless you want that life style a marine has, and from what I've heard, it's not one for lucid dreamers or anyone who likes sleeping.
I'm suggesting that yes, there are better uses for LDs than some other uses.
It all depends on your perspective, I find that lucid dreaming currently is a great way to just relax and have nothing to do in. Others use it for more active things like flying a plane, having sex, or speaking to knowledgeable DC's. I wouldn't say any use is THE way to use lucid dreaming, instead it's what people find is the best way to you use for them.
You might think it's selfish to use it for personal enjoyment since it isn't helping anyone and this ability is rare, but everyone deserves a break from work, and dreaming is a great way to have that break.
Destruction is a form of creation and it's all conserved. Destroy a building and you just created rubble.
Next time you're in a lucid dream, destroy all buildings, kill all dream characters, expunge everything and behold what you have just created. :ugeek:
Yes. What even is "creation" and "destruction"?
deschainXIX wrote: Yes. What even is "creation" and "destruction"?
You aren't a Multimedia Designer/artist, so you wouldn't know the answer to that question.
Creation is when you create a character, or a landscape from scratch, and you spend your time and effort perfecting that landscape, making sure it looks exactly the way you want it to look. With a character, you have to spend a lot of time, studying the anatomy of the character (be it a person, animal, or a plant), to get the drawing in just the right way. Then you learn to animate the drawings to bring the character(s) to life. Hence is the creation of a character in animation (created by the hands of the designer). In Lucid Dreaming, it can work in exactly the same way as Multimedia Design for creation. As far as how the characters reproduce in my aromantic asexual World, they have become scientifically advanced enough that they have learned how to DNA clone themselves. They just extract a little bit of DNA usually from a guy's arm and a female's arm, and combine the 2, use a whole lot of computer programming and scientific engineering, and they can program the personality, traits, and even the age of the person that comes from the DNA strands, however they cannot program the gender, that comes from which chromosome is most present in the guy's DNA. As for the animals, the mammals and birds have to be cloned, but the other species have learned to asexually reproduce, and both genders can now lay eggs (look up Yoshi (male) and Birdo (shemale), they reproduce asexually). As far as destruction, yes I kill my characters, but in fact, Multimedia Designers are required to discard ideas or character they have nearly all the time that aren't good enough in place of new ones. So killing off unnecessary characters for better ones is in fact a bit of a true statement. Let me ask you this: Why is it in many TV shows they put some characters many fans love on a bus or write them off entirely in favor of new ones that more fans love? Because that is how Multimedia Designers are, they discard old ideas for new ones. Actually in a much more graphic content, in a video game, unless you are playing a puzzle game like Tetris or a little child's game, you are going to be required to attack or kill something in a video game. And as a designer, you have to come up with so many ways to KO or kill the opposing characters in a video game and in turn, so many ways for your own character to be killed in a video game, it isn't even funny. So for a video game designer, learning to kill your DCs is a tactful way in learning how to program the main character to defeat characters in a video game. And figuring out ways you yourself can die (even through self-destruction) in a dream are also a way to figure out how you will program the main character to die in the video game. Here why not watch this Self-Destruct Zelda video to show what I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T6rRCxKXpw
deschainXIX wrote: Yes. What even is "creation" and "destruction"?
Rip a head off a DC and you created a corpse.
Have sex. What is that but a feeling? Nothing was gained or lossed.
Even that corps wasn't a being so beit! Nothing can be gained or lossed in a dream except emotions.
Rip me a new one and tell me I'm wrong. I would love that. For I can tell you all honestly, as a lucid dreamer, I've done it all, and nothing, I MEAN NOTHING, can ever offend me. I even tried to experience nothing and there was nothing there! Always something!
Emotions are futile. This is what Dreamstudent is against, I know, but I must say that's what happened to me. I feel good and compassionate, and I dare anyone to tell me otherwise. I like to play with the Borg concept, and have a more existential view:
Existence is Futile. :ugeek: That's what they should have said in Star Trek! :geek:
What is there when there is nothing, after you destroy or assimilate everything? It's still nothing. Just a futile addition of zeroes. Same as existence for every person. Nobody goes anywhere or 'does' anything. They just exist. And they go nowhere.
I have taken this concept into my dreams, as I assume everyone else takes their own concepts into dreams.
THAT'S WHY IT'S POINTLESS TO CARE ABOUT WHAT ANYONE ELSE DOES IN A DREAM, BUT YOURSELF. It's all you. Listen and learn from others, though and take it or leave it, for that is the only way to learn.
(This was not to DreamStudent, I like you, and you spoke the truth, but I speak my message to all others reading this, whoever they are....)
Getting to know people on this Forum and getting to know my Dream Characters is the ultimate power of lucid dreaming and the answer to my existence, which is not futile. (To me anyway... for now.... I can still argue against that....)
(EDIT: I was up at 4:30 a.m. when I wrote that. I blurt out weird stuff at night, but then again, maybe it's actually smart. Just can't put my thoughts into well structured paragraphs is all....) :mrgreen:
Hello, That was a really interesting and wonderful read and i just want to thank you for writing that, anyway A small thing i want to add, Wouldn't it be better if humans took all their anger and rage in the Dream world (because no harm come in dreams) Just one mans thought I was just thinking
"If you can dream it you can do it."
Hmmm... no. In a lucid dream you can fly to the moon like superman. In waking life that is simply impossible.
And anything can be done in a lucid dream. You can be as depraved and immoral as you want to be if such freedom gives you pleasure. It is your mind. Forget the mannacles of the real world for doing unusual things in dreams may inspire creativity. Like being a serial killer in the dream world and getting a good inkling of how someone like the Green River killer felt. Then you can write a novel, a crime thriller, where you convey the villain's mind in exquisite detail. ;-)
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Summerlander wrote: In a lucid dream you can fly to the moon like superman.
No you can't. You only think you did. When you are flying or falling in a dream, have you ever thought... am I moving as I see things pass me, or am I staying still and they are moving around me, only creating the illusion of movement? You didn't go anywhere.
Sure felt good though, and sounds like a fun memory.
Committing horrific assaults in a lucid dream is equally an illusion and none of it remains after the dream. The dream was created and destroyed when it began and ended. Nothing is gained or lost and it adds to 0. Well, not quite!
Two things remain: The Feeling and The Memory. Dreams can leave a 'solid' residue on our minds even though the dream was a 'holodeck' illusion. (So some things ARE gained after all. I am typing this as I brainstorm)
I'm glad to say, I never felt pleasure in killing dream characters, (unless I am semi-lucid and skiing down a hill shooting people like a video game... true example). I have killed out of 'self-defense' before too. Even though I just said it's all an illusion it can be quite convincing and dream characters have actually grabbed me and thrown me and even tried poking me in the eye once or twice! They got what they deserved.
I experimented recently a few weeks ago, killing a dream character just for the heck of it. They were just like a rag-doll and I sensed no 'presence' in it, and it didn't talk, so it was more of an 'experiment' to see what would happen if I ripped their head off. (I got the idea on a whim in the dream because I have attempted similar feats on myself, pulling fingers off, bending them back, sticking my hands in my head and once even pulled my own arm off). So why not try it on someone else in the dream?
You might think that's sick. I didn't enjoy it as much as other dreams and don't feel like doing it again. So I know I am a good person. (Yet an evil person would say the same thing!)
This opens a good debatable question about the ethics of lucid dreaming... (That's it for my rambling. I get a thought in my head and I just keep going!)
Actually, in a lucid dream, you don't think you did the action at all. You know you didn't because you know it's all a dream. If you thought you did fly you wouldn't be lucid. Lucidity means you are clear about the nature of your circumstances and all you are doing is enjoying the realism of that which you know to be an illusion.
In the same vein, I never ask where I'm moving or the world is moving past me when lucid dreaming. I know motion is illusory to begin with. Nothing is moving at all.
I can be pedantic too, Hagart! :-D
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Somewhere there is a thread titled "Lucid Dreaming Ethics." Died young, like most of my threads. The concluding verdict, if memory serves, was of course: Do whatever the hell you want. Doing bad things in a dream doesn't make you a bad person, HAGART. Not if you're consciously aware that you are free of empathy in the dream--thusly your regard for human life is not violated and you may proceed in utter depravity. (I liked Summerlander's example. I've done psychological research for my novels via lucid dreams before. Or even acted out scenes for inspiration when I get stuck.)
I also don't think that space in the real world is any more significant than space in the dream world. If I walk across the room right now, it could be a dream, it could be reality, and I wouldn't know the difference unless I did a reality check--but what does that prove exactly?
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deschainXIX wrote: Somewhere there is a thread titled "Lucid Dreaming Ethics." Died young, like most of my threads. The concluding verdict, if memory serves, was of course: Do whatever the hell you want. Doing bad things in a dream doesn't make you a bad person, HAGART. Not if you're consciously aware that you are free of empathy in the dream--thusly your regard for human life is not violated and you may proceed in utter depravity. (I liked Summerlander's example. I've done psychological research for my novels via lucid dreams before. Or even acted out scenes for inspiration when I get stuck.)
I also don't think that space in the real world is any more significant than space in the dream world. If I walk across the room right now, it could be a dream, it could be reality, and I wouldn't know the difference unless I did a reality check--but what does that prove exactly?
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Your right what does it prove? I think it proves that there are different dimensions within reality all though this leads to a new topic but that's the only explanation I can think of, is that it proves consciousness never ends, it only transitions.
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How does it prove that exactly?
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Summerlander wrote: How does it prove that exactly?
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Because of his theory on walking in a room in the real world and walking through a room in the dream world and being able to differentiate between the two realities.
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I do not see how it proves consciousness is infinite. How does it prove that? It only proves that consciousness cannot definitively differentiate between realities--it only observes perception passively. The act of lucid dreaming is to defy this nature (and we are largely inefficient most of the time).
However, I would have phrased my conclusion differently: There are undeniably two worlds (or maybe no worlds), and those worlds have a lot of commonalities, but they also have a lot of differences. For example, in a lucid dream I can teleport across 100,000 kilometers in the blink of an eye. In reality, that is impossible.
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I can imagine stealing Angelina Jolie from Brad Pitt. In reality, that is highly unlikely! :-D
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deschainXIX wrote: I do not see how it proves consciousness is infinite. How does it prove that? It only proves that consciousness cannot definitively differentiate between realities--it only observes perception passively. The act of lucid dreaming is to defy this nature (and we are largely inefficient most of the time).
However, I would have phrased my conclusion differently: There are undeniably two worlds (or maybe no worlds), and those worlds have a lot of commonalities, but they also have a lot of differences. For example, in a lucid dream I can teleport across 100,000 kilometers in the blink of an eye. In reality, that is impossible.
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but is anything really impossible in the real world and dream world? i quote "Anything is possible, but how probable is it, is the true question" this couldnt be more accurate of a statement for this arguments on this topic
Summerlander wrote: Actually, in a lucid dream, you don't think you did the action at all. You know you didn't because you know it's all a dream. If you thought you did fly you wouldn't be lucid. Lucidity means you are clear about the nature of your circumstances and all you are doing is enjoying the realism of that which you know to be an illusion.
In the same vein, I never ask where I'm moving or the world is moving past me when lucid dreaming. I know motion is illusory to begin with. Nothing is moving at all.
I can be pedantic too, Hagart! :-D
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depends how you define action? i mean doesnt it, action -the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim. so it is technically action and not an illusion. its happening because u make it happen
If you guys want to be in the most lucid dream of your entire life with all your waking logic.... wake up.
As for Mrs. Jolie. Brad can keep that anorexic for rampant Hollywood inbreeding for all I care. ;) Oh wait, I think she buys them from Africa when she goes child shopping.
(I'm being bad and testing my offensive humour, but I'm still smart, and stand by my thought-provoking first line)
dreamstudent wrote: "
There is so much violence in the human race, must we drag that into our dreams? The dream world gives infinite possibilities and after careful consideration and investigating I noticed a very sad and yet troubling problem among the Lucid Dreamers among us. It seems as though a vast majority of the posts on this forum involving either 'Killing LD's or 'LD Powers' etc. etc. are either indirectly and directly associated with violence.
Im curious if you ever play video/computer games in which things are killed? If you do its really no different then those who do things like that in their LDs. It's a thought corruption even just with a killing concept even without blood and gore.
One thing though which may be different in killing computer games then in peoples own LDs, is I personally find I often cant do things which go against my morals.. and if I do, I often end up subconsciously punishing myself in the dream. eg one time I told a lie in a dream and ended up growing a nose like pinocinno.. and my nose then ended up being caught in a door and the DC I'd lied to then mocked me.
If a person needs a killing outlet, maybe dreams are a better way to do it then video games as our minds then can more so filter what we do???
We Lucid Dreamers, WE, have a special gift
? What's special about it? Most people if they were interested, really interested could learn how to LD. The thing is, most people just aren't interested in it. Most of us worked at it till we learnt it just like people work at anything in life to be able to do it.
Dreamstudent,
I did not bother to read the conflicting views towards this post but I want to thank you for writing this.
I completely understand what you mean and much appreciate your contribution.
73
dreamstudent wrote:
Summerlander wrote:Actually, in a lucid dream, you don't think you did the action at all. You know you didn't because you know it's all a dream. If you thought you did fly you wouldn't be lucid. Lucidity means you are clear about the nature of your circumstances and all you are doing is enjoying the realism of that which you know to be an illusion.
In the same vein, I never ask where I'm moving or the world is moving past me when lucid dreaming. I know motion is illusory to begin with. Nothing is moving at all.
I can be pedantic too, Hagart! :-D
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depends how you define action? i mean doesnt it, action -the fact or process of doing something, typically to achieve an aim. so it is technically action and not an illusion. its happening because u make it happen
Every perceived action in a lucid dream is an illusion because it is not what it seems -- to know this while it's happening is what it means to be lucid whilst dreaming. What you do in the dream world has no objective reality; this is how dream action differs from real action -- the former emulates the latter in perceptual quality but does not derive from anything ACTually happening as expressed in consciousness -- it is just a neuronic phenomenon which is not being constrained, for the most part, by sensory input from external reality.
Therefore, there is no action in dreams as its events are not ACTually happening. Hence, perceived action in said state is an illusion. You are not doing anything at all other than sleeping and you certainly don't control your neural activity -- this is an involuntary action by itself and the control you think you have over mental events is an illusion, too. (See my 'free will' topic.) 8-)
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=15086
And even real actions, by the way, aren't necessarily carried out for a purpose or to achieve an aim. Take sleepwalking, for instance; it is an action (or a set of actions) performed in unconsciousness and without aim. :-D
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Now wait just a minute! :)
Isn’t most of the neurological activity observed in lucid dreaming minds similar if not near-identical to that observed in someone doing the same action in reality? It’s why practicing something in a dream or anywhere else in the mental “sphere”, even something purely kinesthetic like skiing (or playing the piano, as was mentioned by Susan Greenfield) is almost just as effective as practicing that thing in real life. The primary difference is the somatic motoneurotic suppression brought on by REM atonia. What is world, then? In essence, nil. I affirm the thesis I made earlier in this thread. :D
I agree, however, that diurnal and nocturnal “actions” can be (and indeed usually are) unconscious and unmotivated turnings of neurological cogs. And I agree that intention does not preclude the illusion of action, even if it was significant.
deschainXIX wrote: Now wait just a minute! :)
Isn’t most of the neurological activity observed in lucid dreaming minds similar if not near-identical to that observed in someone doing the same action in reality? It’s why practicing something in a dream or anywhere else in the mental “sphere”, even something purely kinesthetic like skiing (or playing the piano, as was mentioned by Susan Greenfield) is almost just as effective as practicing that thing in real life. The primary difference is the somatic motoneurotic suppression brought on by REM atonia. What is world, then? In essence, nil. I affirm the thesis I made earlier in this thread. :D
I agree, however, that diurnal and nocturnal “actions” can be (and indeed usually are) unconscious and unmotivated turnings of neurological cogs. And I agree that intention does not preclude the illusion of action, even if it was significant.
Dude I think you just disproved summerlanders argument completely because that is so true about the similarity in nueral patterns in dreaming and waking life. Boom.
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