Intent and Frustration ---Give up?
I am finding it really hard to continue my lucid dream attempts because I am finding myself frustrated with my countless failures. I always believed I had the proper intent, because it is something I want to do! But do I need some intent stronger than that? I am starting to give up on my efforts because I see no reason why I shouldn't have found a measure of success yet, and yet I fail time and time again. I am of the belief now that maybe lucid dreaming just isn't for me, and I just stop putting my emotions, effort and attentions into it.
Has anyone felt this way before? What did you do? Continue making attempts (which is futile in my mind now) or did you stop bothering with it?
Its kinda like buying a lottery ticket. I am just so sick of losing that I feel ALL the odds are against me and I should just stop buying into it.
I have definitely felt that way before so I know what it's like. Even after success you feel that way at times. It's a little better because you can say "It did happen before so I know it's possible" but that doesn't help me that much. After I go a month with no LD, I get really discouraged and it took me 6 months to have my first.
Of course I wouldn't recommend giving up entirely, but you should probably take a break for a while at least if you are really frustrated. Maybe just concentrate on enjoying your dreams, whatever they be. Just work on recall, record them, etc. Then later decide if you want to try to become lucid again. Re-evaluate and go over everything you are doing and see what you change/try, etc. BTW: How long have you been trying?
i look at things a different way. to me, lucid dreaming isn't about success or failure. i just do what i think will help me have a lucid dream and then enjoy whatever happens. give up on trying? i don't think that's going to help you. what i think you should focus on is giving up some ideas. the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, effort. i find that these are all just attempts on the ego to control. and that letting go of that control is all it takes. it may be scary and painful, but i do believe its true.
it seems to me like you can't stand the idea of all that effort doing nothing. i find that in lucid dreaming any attempt to control things that are beyond you're control only hurt you. so if anything, i would suggest just relaxing and not to try to succeed, just try because that itself is the success.
i recently read a book called "true meditation" and i think anybody that gets frustrated with lucid dreaming or meditation can learn a lot from that book. actually i think everybody can learn a lot from it.
The only way you can feel disappointment is if you had expectation. (a Buddhist philosophy, but it is true. All disappointment sprouts from a seed of expectation doesn't it?) I use to have a few lucid dreams a year and thought they were great, but now if I go a week (like this one) without a lucid dream I start to worry if I ever will again! Because I expect it. When I get like this I just let it go. I don't give up. I just let it be and don't focus on it. Just sleep and don't expect anything and even non-lucid dreams are wonderful.
And to this day, some of my favorite and memorable dreams were actually NON-LUCID.
So I would say don't give up, but stop trying. Sounds like an oxymoron, but it is not. Stop trying the techniques that make you expect a lucid dream and ultimately leads to disappointment, but still remain conscious of it all the time and aware of it and just let sleep happen however it happens.
(My ideas my not work either and I make no promises. Even I get frustrated and wonder why I didn't LD when it was so OBVIOUS I was dreaming! I don't know of anybody on this site that doesn't feel that.)
These posts are right on in my opinion. I agree, some of the best are non Lucid. Just work at recalling your dreams and enjoy them, and at some point you will go lucid since it is always in the back of your mind now anyway. And thats where intent should be. Try to force intent and you will not LD that night...found that out!. Dont force it. You have to be well rested and relaxed anyway, so just enjoy dreaming for now. Your subtle intent you now already have so ignore 'trying' for now.
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lucidinthe sky wrote: BTW: How long have you been trying?
Its been a year since my first true lucid dream. A whole year this month.
lumencryster wrote: the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, effort. i find that these are all just attempts on the ego to control. and that letting go of that control is all it takes. it may be scary and painful, but i do believe its true.
it seems to me like you can't stand the idea of all that effort doing nothing. i find that in lucid dreaming any attempt to control things that are beyond you're control only hurt you. so if anything, i would suggest just relaxing and not to try to succeed, just try because that itself is the success.
That is easy to say when you don't have an issue with it ;) I don't really try to assert any more control than what is actually necessary, to be lucid. Most the time I just go to sleep and try to remain conscious without certainty of where it will lead. Giving up the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, and effort? That leaves you with what? Without a success or failure there is no motive, no reason. Without reason or motive, there is no conviction. Without conviction, nobody achieves anything. Trying not to succeed is success? I am not sure how you conclude that. I am assuming that you don't have difficulty or struggle lucid dreaming.
HAGART wrote: So I would say don't give up, but stop trying. Sounds like an oxymoron, but it is not. Stop trying the techniques that make you expect a lucid dream and ultimately leads to disappointment, but still remain conscious of it all the time and aware of it and just let sleep happen however it happens.
(My ideas my not work either and I make no promises. Even I get frustrated and wonder why I didn't LD when it was so OBVIOUS I was dreaming! I don't know of anybody on this site that doesn't feel that.) This is how I have been approaching it lately, but due to this I have been overwhelmed by frustration. This is probably how I will proceed as well, because I know expectation is not a good thing when it comes to lucid dreaming, obe, whatever.
Thank you all for your words of wisdom and opinions! It seems I will be taking a more passive approach to lucid dreaming, by thoroughly exploring my non lucid dreams and experiences as I fall asleep, without expectation or concern. Its hard. Its like wanting to learn a language by just listening to it but not making active attempts to speak it.
I understand why you are discouraged, lucid dreaming has been very difficult for me to learn and still is difficult to achieve. Even if you want to continue which of course I would recommend, you should take a break from it. I've had to take breaks all along, still do just because it just takes so much energy sometimes or because of frustration. Sometimes when you stop trying, it just happens so hopefully your more passive approach will help. Hope you stay on the forum. Good luck whatever you decide.
KylePK wrote: Its been a year since my first true lucid dream. A whole year this month.
lumencryster wrote: the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, effort. i find that these are all just attempts on the ego to control. and that letting go of that control is all it takes. it may be scary and painful, but i do believe its true.
it seems to me like you can't stand the idea of all that effort doing nothing. i find that in lucid dreaming any attempt to control things that are beyond you're control only hurt you. so if anything, i would suggest just relaxing and not to try to succeed, just try because that itself is the success.
That is easy to say when you don't have an issue with it ;) I don't really try to assert any more control than what is actually necessary, to be lucid. Most the time I just go to sleep and try to remain conscious without certainty of where it will lead. Giving up the idea of success, failure, reason, attempt, and effort? That leaves you with what? Without a success or failure there is no motive, no reason. Without reason or motive, there is no conviction. Without conviction, nobody achieves anything. Trying not to succeed is success? I am not sure how you conclude that. I am assuming that you don't have difficulty or struggle lucid dreaming. .
sorry if i sounded rude or arrogant, i didn't mean it. i want to clarify some things. first, i am not very good at lucid dreaming. i meditate a lot, but its a rare occasion when i get a lucid dream. the second is that i am still not that good at letting go of control, or calming my mind. try to understand that we're all struggling along side you, we all have issues we're trying to overcome otherwise we're not trying to get better.
I know it seems counter-intuitive, but what do you do to fall asleep? the more you worry about success, failure, reason, attempt, and effort, the harder it is to fall asleep. on the other hand if you have absolutely no effort, no attempts to have a lucid dream you aren't going to lucid dream. i like to think its more of a balancing act. if you stop focusing on success or failure, you may realize that you were focusing on these things too hard.
Take it from someone who doesn't achieve at anything. ANYTHING. I struggle with drawing, school, a social life (I'm home-schooled and hardly see the light of day), Even doing simple stupid stuff like running 10 feet (asthma). And just like you, I want to lucid dream so bad, but I probably won't, because nothing I do works.
That's how I used to look at things. Now, I only learned about lucid dreaming 2 weeks ago, And I understand that you haven't had a lucid dream in a year, so I can only imagine what your frustration might be. And you're right, without reason, without drive, nobody would achieve anything. That's exactly how I think. I said the same words myself many times. Instead of forgetting about lucid dreaming for a while, like these guys want you to, (no offense, but that just doesn't sit well with me) try finding other ways.
Edison tried 1000 times to make a incandescent light bulb, but only one time worked? No, Many of the trial light bulbs worked, but only for a couple seconds. Each time he made one he got closer and closer to the working light bulb.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Take a step back, look at everything you've done to lucid dream, and either find out where you're going wrong or * find another way to lucid dream.* There's always another way.
I hope I helped, and please don't take me as the kind of guy that thinks they know everything, because I'm not, I just want to help.
KungFuPanther wrote: Take it from someone who doesn't achieve at anything. ANYTHING. I struggle with drawing, school, a social life (I'm home-schooled and hardly see the light of day), Even doing simple stupid stuff like running 10 feet (asthma). And just like you, I want to lucid dream so bad, but I probably won't, because nothing I do works.
That's how I used to look at things. Now, I only learned about lucid dreaming 2 weeks ago, And I understand that you haven't had a lucid dream in a year, so I can only imagine what your frustration might be. And you're right, without reason, without drive, nobody would achieve anything. That's exactly how I think. I said the same words myself many times. Instead of forgetting about lucid dreaming for a while, like these guys want you to, (no offense, but that just doesn't sit well with me) try finding other ways.
Edison tried 1000 times to make a incandescent light bulb, but only one time worked? No, Many of the trial light bulbs worked, but only for a couple seconds. Each time he made one he got closer and closer to the working light bulb.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, Take a step back, look at everything you've done to lucid dream, and either find out where you're going wrong or * find another way to lucid dream.* There's always another way.
I hope I helped, and please don't take me as the kind of guy that thinks they know everything, because I'm not, I just want to help.
Thank you as well for your input. I too have asthma, suck at school, drawing, math, meh haha. Its good to hear from someone coming from my point of view. I beat my asthma, I re-evaluated the actual importance of school, instead of drawing I began writing, and screw math. I agree, there is always an alternate, always another route to take you where you wanna be.
I have not read the full thread so this might have been covered, what is your dream recall like. It would be irony if you have the odd lucid dream but dont recall them as this can happen.
Lucid dreaming is a balance of a lot of small steps that all add to what you are seeking and it takes a lot of work, as much as anything else you will ever try to do
Peter wrote: I have not read the full thread so this might have been covered, what is your dream recall like. It would be irony if you have the odd lucid dream but dont recall them as this can happen.
Lucid dreaming is a balance of a lot of small steps that all add to what you are seeking and it takes a lot of work, as much as anything else you will ever try to do
I honestly feel like I have lucid dreams that I can't remember. My dream recall.... well its not the best lol.
Same, I hit a peak of 11 dreams and 2 long lucids a few nights back and now only getting 2 or 3 dreams a night (not lucid) it comes and goes and there is not need to worry about it.
I do record a night of no dreams as just that as it still helps with dream recall.
Let me also add that while 'try without trying' sounds like you arent doing anything, thats not quite the whole picture. I know I have to recall my dreams... I journal every day. I cant watch intense tv right before bed or my brain is too occupied. I do reality checks during the day. I have to sleep in...my normal awake time of 6:30am doesnt usually work. I have to awaken around 4:30 or so and take a bio break to become slightly more awake, but not too much. So I have found some regimen...but beyond this there isnt much more I can do when falling asleep other than lightly thinking I want to LD. So 'not trying' just means thinking there is some magic trick you can figure out to reliably trigger an LD.
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Yeah I understand what you guys mean by giving a more passive effort. I just struggle with that because being passive and not trying too hard makes me feel discouraged and not wanna try at all while giving it my all seems to screw me over too. So I will have to find an indirect way to give it my all... like in dream recall or questioning my reality more often.
I was under the impression that having a perfect WILD setup would inevitably give me lucid dream success. That is false.
The perfect WILD set up is the one that works at the time, it is not a fixed method but a set of tools that increase the chance and thats all. Just keep at if in a confident relaxed way and in time there will be more hits than misses
KylePK wrote: I honestly feel like I have lucid dreams that I can't remember. My dream recall.... well its not the best lol.
I'm finding that are are in-between types of dreams that are what people refer to as "semi-lucid" I don;t always remember them, but often do.
My dreams have been moving in the direction of lucidity and this kind of dream is increasing for me, probably as a result of all the effort I put into having lucid dreams. Regular, non-lucid dreams are becoming more like lucids. For example: I'm not lucid, but I tell the threatening guy he won't be able to hurt me because he isn't real. Soon after the police arrive and take the guy away. A huge, unusually blue-colored craft flies right over my head, so close I feel like like I can touch it. I tell someone, "Very cool, but is that real?" I tell someone I'm going to look them up on the internet once I get back to where I came from or explain how I'm from a different world than they are, etc. In so many of my non-lucid dreams I'm exploring and really enjoying the experience. When I wake up excited and it feels almost like I was lucid, but not quite. But still fantastic. So I really think that just putting effort and attention into becoming lucid will move you in the direction of dreams becoming more vivid/real, easier to remember and closer to lucid.
Yes, the comment about non-lucids getting better has been my experience too. Especially ones as Lucid indicated where you "almost" go lucid... Maybe you are talking about lucid dreaming to others, or you think "gosh I wish lucid dreams were as real as this is" (thinking you are awake but you are dreaming), or seeing someone who is dead and wondering about that. Some of my best non-lucids were as good as my lucids as far as enjoyment, content, and vividness. I never really had those before LD's so they are a byproduct of working on LDs. In fact, some of my favorite vivid dreams were not-quite lucids.... twice I was in a situation where in real life I would have died (car sinking in mud and elevator breaking) my last thought before awakening was "I HOPE I am dreaming or I am Dead!" Sounds scary, and it was, but when I awoke I had such a rush that "Wow, I'm alive!"... it was like finishing a scary rollercoaster or some dangerous situation you narrowly avoided. So, I say, try to enjoy the whole dreaming situation.
I hope I can get back towards feeling good about trying to lucid dream. I think I am going to focus on dream recall for a while and just meditation, and let lucidity kind of come more or less on its own.