Don't give up on the lucid dream when the visuals go away

This is probably nothing new for experienced Lders, but something I just learned in the last 2 LDs. Just had a long LD this morning and the video went dark, grey or black and white at least 10 times during the dream. Did the hand rubbing thing a few times, but mostly just waited and told myself that I would not wake up and that the visuals would come back. Just that was enough, the dream just kept going and going.

In the past I would just wake myself up thinking it was over, but now I am prepared for temporary lose of video so no big deal.

So don't give up if you lose visual data, you are just going through a tunnel in the road and will come out soon.

That's right. I experienced my first hynogogic imagery by remaining perfectly still after a lucid dream ended and refused to wake up. I saw many images before they finally 'stabilized' and I was back in the lucid dream again. (I didn't know what happened, and I had to look it up on the internet learned about the term hypnogic imagery that very day.) It has also led to the 'vibrations' and 'buzzing sound' that people speak of, and even a few bouts of sleep paralysis, and floating out of body, but if I successfully follow through with those I am back in a lucid dream again. You may not enter this 'phase' all the time if you remain still and calm after a lucid dream, but I recommend it to others anyway just to become familiar with any sights, sounds, and feelings that can be encountered and then it doesn't unnerve you anymore. And it leads to better lucid dream control and perhaps even a WILD.

I still haven't experienced what I would consider a true WILD, because I have always had a lapse in consciousness, but being familiar with all those strange sensations is definitely good experience to have under your belt so if I ever do get to that stage from an attempted WILD I can say, "hey, I've been here before and I know what to do from here!"

Agree, its just a blank screen and the dream will come back if you stay lucid.

HAGART wrote: I still haven't experienced what I would consider a true WILD, because I have always had a lapse in consciousness, but being familiar with all those strange sensations is definitely good experience to have under your belt so if I ever do get to that stage from an attempted WILD I can say, "hey, I've been here before and I know what to do from here!"

Most of my WILDs have a break in consciousness too, but it doesn't matter, as long as you get in. In this morning's LD the break was so small it was hard to say it was even there. I've been trying to use the visuals to sort of "hang on to" and focus on, sort of ride them into the dream like a wave. Sounds crazy, but I think it helped this morning.

I've only had 2 WILDs where there was no break and each one only took a matter of seconds to go from fully awake to lucid dreaming physical world. I'm wondering if these were actually DEILDs since it was so fast. I try to WILD every morning, one of my favorite parts of the day :D

Maybe I'm too hard on myself and expect too much and have already WILDed plenty of times, but just didn't know it. And that feeling of 'getting in", I know that. I once felt the familiar 'vibrations' and knew a LD was going to happen and tried to envision a sunny day and a swimming pool. I wound up in a hallway that led to a dark, gritty garage and there was a person there I never met before and the first thing I said was, "Well, at least I'm in!"

lucidinthe sky wrote: each one only took a matter of seconds to go from fully awake to lucid dreaming physical world. I'm wondering if these were actually DEILDs since it was so fast.

I don't know what a DEILD is. (I'm sure I could check, but I am lazy. I'm just not sure what the 'E' stands fore). But I have experienced something similar before. (this is probably different) BUT ANYWAY, after I awaken I realize that when I was in bed drifting into an LD with ease, it wasn't actually real. I was dreaming that I was in bed, and that is why the LD came so easily. I was in a dream state the whole time and only THOUGHT that I was in bed trying to sleep. Then the LD ends, I am in 'bed again' and then the LD starts again so easily, but only after I awaken to do I realize that the 'bed' was actually a dream bed and I was lucid dreaming the whole time.

Hagart wrote: I don't know what a DEILD is. (I'm sure I could check, but I am lazy. I'm just not sure what the 'E' stands fore). But I have experienced something similar before.

I just learned about this. The "E" is for "Exit" as in Dream Exit Initiated Lucid Dream. These apparently happen right when you wake up and you are exiting from a dream state, basically go right back in. There is now a tutorial for this method available on this site, but I haven't tried it.

I think this method requires great timing and probably more than a little good luck. I was sure I wasn't dreaming it though, I had definitely woken up and went back to sleep and straight into a lucid dream. Stayed lucid throughout the dream. I also had one in a swimming pool that worked the same way. Straight in from being awake, quick entry, no transition. This is definitely the best way to get in, but how to make happen more often, that's the question I'd like to answer.

OK come to think of it, this has happened a few times. I can always know after the fact whether I was truly awake or not, and there have been a few times where I woke up for a moment, rolled over, and felt the 'strange sensations' (which can be anything and don't always happen), and within a few minutes I am in a deep lucid dream again. This has happened maybe 2-3 times in the past year or so. And I know for sure I woke up fully if just for a brief moment.

But There have been other times like I said before, that I think were just false awakening where I am dreaming that I am in bed and trying to lucid dream again, and of course from that state of mind, it is easy to 'go back in'.

But in either case, my mind didn't fully awaken. I can roll over and be asleep again quite easily. That 'sleep-mode' state of mind is hard to shake sometimes. It can take a full hour in the morning for me to shake 'the morning grogs'! <--- if you don't know what that is, that's my nickname for it. Grogs = grogginess. BUt isn't 'grogginess' just our minds still in sleep-mode? It's easy to go back to sleep when we are still groggy.

And I think we all know what I mean by the 'morning grogs". Our minds are different when in that state. It's hard to explain in words, but perhaps sleepiness or 'sleep-ready' but not the same as tired when going to bed in the night. It's a different type of sleepiness or tiredness. I don't know the word for it. Apparently the Eskimos have a bunch of words to describe 'snow' because it appears in so many ways, (packing snow, powder, ect. I'm in Canada in winter right now so, I thought of that analogy and I know many different states of snow, but don't have words for it) But tired or sleepy or too general to describe how I and most people feel when they are about to lie down and dream. Them come in many forms. I've gone off tangent yet again, but I got thinking..... :idea:

Reading this thread, specifically the bit about video going black really paid off for me last night. My LDs would normally end with everything just ending leaving me in the dark. I would typically just open my eyes awake and do a reality check. Last night when one LD would end and turn dark I just waited and told myself that the LDs would continue, and soon they did. This LD, end to blackness, new LD went on to repeat about five more times.

This was a really great discovery for me so I figured there were others with the same experience. Glad this helped you get through those dark points. I was really amazed with not only the fact that the LD would continue, but the amount of additional time that was possible. Maybe even 10 times as much as the first ones where I just woke myself up figuring it was over. I've only had 2 LDs since discovering this so hoping there's a lot more longer ones to come.

This really helped for me last night, I was lucid and closed my eyes and everything became black, but I remained focused and determined to keep my lucidity and next thing I knew, I woke up in a vacation house by the sea and continued the dream from there. :D

I think I've already done something similar to this DEILD, but without the "L" (which is kind of the most important letter of the acronym). I mean I remember being dreaming quite vividly without being lucid, then slowly waking up until I was aware of the fact I was actually waking up. At that point I was able to "daydream" for a few seconds until I felt back asleep, but without being lucid ...

I might have lost some nice opportunities to LD !

LucidLeon wrote: This really helped for me last night, I was lucid and closed my eyes and everything became black, but I remained focused and determined to keep my lucidity and next thing I knew, I woke up in a vacation house by the sea and continued the dream from there. :D

Glad it helped. I wish I had known this earlier (like a year ago). I've bailed on too many Lds unnecessarily, but now it's been possible to go longer.

Leaves me wondering though: what causes this in the first place?

lodestar wrote: I think I've already done something similar to this DEILD, but without the "L" (which is kind of the most important letter of the acronym). I mean I remember being dreaming quite vividly without being lucid, then slowly waking up until I was aware of the fact I was actually waking up. At that point I was able to "daydream" for a few seconds until I felt back asleep, but without being lucid ...

I might have lost some nice opportunities to LD !

Yes, that might have been a "DEID" so to say. I had an interesting WILD this morning that was basically straight in from being awake, but I had been awake for more than 2 hours before getting in to the dream. Most of that time my mind was just too active, but then started to relax more, and the thoughts started to change to those kind of illusive pre-dream type thoughts even though my mind was still very active. It doesn't need to be completely quiet as I used to think. Then the images started forming, becoming clearer, 3D etc. Then it become a lucid dream. I guess that was just the normal WILD process, but this is the first time I had been awake for so long and still able to get in without losing awareness. At this point in time, I still have to basically get to the stage where I am demanding a lucid dream with all my energy and will in order for it to happen. But it does.

lucidinthe sky wrote: Leaves me wondering though: what causes this in the first place?

I wonder that myself. I have had a lucid dream for about an hour once or twice, but in both cases, I would feel it ending and would have to do everything I can to prolong it or I might just awaken in a false bed and do a reality check and continue lucid dreaming from there. For some reason, most lucid dreams last about 15 minutes before you feel it slipping away. I heard others say this too and don't have evidence to back it up, but in my experience that is the case. But it doesn't mean you have to wake up. You just lose the setting you were in and it changes. Why, I don't know. And it can't be blamed on attention span. It must have something to do with the brain activity and REM dreaming. Even my non lucid dreams that I recall seem to have a drastic scene change every so often and I bet it is about every 15 minutes or so. I think I saw a graph once of the mind dreaming and it goes up and down and when it is up it is in the REM state, but it always comes back down again for a little while before going back up. But it doesn't mean you have to wake up. (Which would explain a lot of my false awakenings I get after a lucid dream. I am still dreaming, but lose my setting and then logically place my self in my 'bed' and 'wake up'. But I'm still dreaming....

One of the things I like about WILD is that you go in at the beginning of the dream and have the potential of being lucid for the maximum time. So longer LDs are possible.

I wonder if our non-lucid dreams have continous visuals. Maybe they don't, but we don't notice. Maybe a lot of the other sensory input is missing too. Sometimes I think my dreams skip a lot of the details to get to the essence of whatever experience is important.

Knowing my own dreams, I realize that the ones I get in the early hours of sleep tend to be more abstract and without much of the sensations and objects and situations that we experience in real waking life. Some of those dreams after I recall them seem to be just a period of deep hynogogia with images and sounds, but not much form and my mind tends to mull about abstract illogical ideas that are hard to put into words after I wake up and try to record my dream.

But even the most vivid non-lucid dreams I get, which tend to happen in the early hours of the morning and end of sleep cycle, they always have a moment of drastic, and seemingly abrupt change. One moment I was concerned about something inside my house and then I remember being outside climbing trees or whatever. I remember both and know they happened chronologically one just before the other, and yet, what happened in between? I have no recollection of leaving the house.

Perhaps there is a moment of abstract imagery and thought that occurs for a period between them and who knows with certainty how long it ACTUALLY was. Although the two moments seemed like they occurred within seconds of each other, there may have been a whole 5 minute gap between the two and we only THINK that it was just a short period between the memorable dreaming. That is possible because without any memories to fill in that 5 minute gap it would seem like it never existed after we wake up and recall our dreams. I actually disagree and think that a 5 minute gap would change the dream so completely I would know that it was a different dream, but then again.... how can I truly be certain of time when there is no thoughts to remember in that time frame? :shock: <-- my head just exploded again.......

But to bring this back to the original topic, if this can happen in a non-lucid dream, there is no reason why it won't happen when lucid. But since we are aware during that break, we instantly create another scenario and don't enter a 'timeless' phase.

HAGART wrote:

Perhaps there is a moment of abstract imagery and thought that occurs for a period between them and who knows with certainty how long it ACTUALLY was. Although the two moments seemed like they occurred within seconds of each other, there may have been a whole 5 minute gap between the two and we only THINK that it was just a short period between the memorable dreaming. That is possible because without any memories to fill in that 5 minute gap it would seem like it never existed after we wake up and recall our dreams. I actually disagree and think that a 5 minute gap would change the dream so completely I would know that it was a different dream, but then again.... how can I truly be certain of time when there is no thoughts to remember in that time frame? :shock: <-- my head just exploded again.......

Time certainly seems to be utterly warped in the dreamworld; I think here we simply forget a 'gap' which bridges these two scenes. The 'gap' doesn't necessarily have to take place in time as we know it, but is simply a block of forgettable hypnogogia that serves to split one scene up from another.

I personally think that gaps in dreams are just our focus changing and it places us in a different setting such as outside instead of inside because like a daydream we went off on a tangent.

However in a normal night of dreams, although I was unconscious, I know that one dream was separate from the others and there was a timeless gap of 'inactivity' in between. I can sleep for 8 hours but may have only dreamed a vivid, memorable dream for an hour of that if they are all put together.

So I feel that a slight gap in memory of the SAME dream is a result of a tangent thought, BUT how can I honestly prove that there wasn't a period of 'thoughtlessness' that I can't recall? Although it goes against what I think, I am open minded and want to bring it up. (This should be another topic but I don't think Lucid in the Sky will mind....)

HAGART wrote: So I feel that a slight gap in memory of the SAME dream is a result of a tangent thought, BUT how can I honestly prove that there wasn't a period of 'thoughtlessness' that I can't recall? Although it goes against what I think, I am open minded and want to bring it up. (This should be another topic but I don't think Lucid in the Sky will mind....)

I never mind more topics (on this subject anyway :) )

What do you mean by a gap in memory? Is that the memories after you wake up or something during the dream?

I definitely notice gaps in dreams, especially when it comes to sensory input. The memories of non-lucid dream scenes are fairly seemless, but when lucid you see them. I am wondering if dreams are misssing a lot of the sensory data, because the actual sensory data is not needed. Like if no one is watching, what's the point of having detail?

Sorry if that's sounding philosophical, but I think lot of the dream is just instructions like "you are seeing such-and-such person" or "the car you are driving just crashed" here's whatever inputs you need to understand that, but once you do, let's not waste energy, let's move on, no extra stuff. Some of my dreams I am really aware that whatever part of me that makes the dream has a program and a plan, things to "get done". It doesn't waste the resources to provide all of the sensory data, but has a minimalist approach. Once I become lucid, I am looking for more, a lot times the details are there, but sometimes there are a lot of blanks to fill in.

I didn't respond in a while, not because I didn't read this, but frankly I didn't know how to respond or where I was going with this.

Now I know what I was trying to say, and this is regarding purely non-lucid dreams and our own memories trying to piece it all together after we wake up.

When I write in my dream journal, that all the events happened in the same dream, and then draw a line to denote a separation from the other how do I truly know that was accurate if I am just a proverbial bystander witnessing a car crash? (Best example I thought of. What I mean is that police know and I've heard this before, that witnesses to events don't seem to recall all the details the way it actually happened. Our memories are always muddled.) So back to my dream journal, I always draw a line under my notes when I 'KNOW' there is a clear distinction between the two dreams. I may not know how it started or how the other one ended, but I just somehow 'KNOW' that they are not the same dream.

OR DO I? I think that I do.

BUT on the other hand, the other dream that seemed continuous, may have actually been 'interrmisioned' if you will, by a period of sleep, without 'dreaming as we call it' and then we enter the dream again, seemingly without skipping a beat. Maybe there's a lapse in recall after we awaken and we just chalk it up to that without realizing we actually stopped dreaming for 30 minutes or so. BUT WHO WOULD KNOW IF WE WERE IN A DIFFERENT STATE WITHOUT THE CONCEPT OF TIME? It would seem like it didn't happen.

lucidinthe sky wrote: but I think lot of the dream is just instructions like "you are seeing such-and-such person" or "the car you are driving just crashed" here's whatever inputs you need to understand that

I'm starting to realize this too. The basic 'fabric' of the lucid dream that ties it altogether is the same no matter what. Like a program if you will. (Or the 'fabric' of space.) I put it in quotations because it is just a metaphor for seeing an invisible link between everything. But what ACTUALLY happens is infinite depending upon what you were subconsciously thinking at that time. But when I lucid dream I keep experiencing very similar 'layouts'. And I think it is the very essence of "I" that is creating it and that is why it is very similar all the time. And to go deeper, the sense of self we call, "I", is a dream character created by our subconscious just like the other ones, and....... THIS IS GETTING DEEP! It is all starting to click into place for me....

I only stop because I don't know how to put it into words eloquently. But in a wordless, deep, spiritual level I think we all know this and knew it all along and our conscious selves were just conveniently ignorant to that fact because it would mean that our conscious selves, (you), are just an illusion of your own psyche and to realize it would be the death of consciousness. And it doesn't understand non-existence and cannot handle it! And we are not conscious beings entirely and have many aspects that make us tick.

That was deep, and just had to say it. One day I will put it into words in a more eloquent way to understand.... EVEN FOR MYSELF! (Right now it is just a feeling and idea......) But that's where ideas start!