ok so I'm starting to doubt

...if these techniques really work. the only 2 lucid dreams I had were sort of false awakenings, like I woke up in my bed and just realised it is a dream even though my apartment looked the same (excepts some meaningless details, but in general the same). and both of them I think I got totally addicentally, because I had very strong emotions before going to sleep. and that's it. NONE of techniques described on the site helps me. I never remember to do RC in my dreams, I don't have very good dream recall because I tend to wake up before I even dream (my REM starts after 7 hours and I live in noisy place). But even on weekends nothing happens. And WILD doesn't work for me either. I seriously don't know what should I do now, I am becoming more and more frustrated. Maybe it's just that I'm not a person for LD, and you have to really have the talent for it or something?

first off: your REM does not start after 7 hours.

here, take a look at the this: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/the-stages-of-sleep.html

and you've talked about techniques mentioned here, so i assume you're keeping a dream-journal?

yes, I do keep dream journal but it doesn't help me during the nights I can't remember a thing. the thing about is that I remember my dreams only if I sleep more than 7 hours, and that's very often impossible. but I think that doesn't even matter because on days when I do remember, I remember them very well, I can write whole 2 pages for just one night, and I perform reality checks and yet I don't get any LD.

it is important to perform your reality checks correctly, otherwise they won't help at all. i'm pretty sure you know that already but let me repeat: doing RCs is not just about quickly doing them and then carry on with your day but REALLY questioning whether this is a dream right not. that's the important part: ask yourself why you can be so sure that this is no dream. and then prove it. it's all about training yourself to become more aware of your actual situation - by doing so you should be doing that in dreams too.

however, i know what you mean. for me goes the same; reality checks almost never trigger lucidity. i mostly do them AFTER i became aware that this is a dream, as a part of my stabilization methods. there are people on this forum who decided not to stop doing RCs since they won't work on them either, maybe they can help you out on this one.

so you said you only remember your dreams when sleeping longer than 7 hours? yeah, that's understandable. i too have similar "problems" at the time. but what was the reason for you to no being able to sleep long enough? the noises? have you thought about ear-protection?

yes, the noises, I am a light sleeper. I bought ear plugs but they don't help at all. it's probably my building which is awful because the walls are very thin and I hear neighbours constantly. I'm moving in 5 months but it's a lot of time and I wish I could learn how to LD before that time, especially since I'm gonna move to study so I'm gonna have more things on my mind.

like, for example, today I slept around 7 hours but not more and I only know I had a dream and I really relaxed in the morning and tried to focus and remember but it never works.

and I am pretty sure I'm doing RC correctly...

When doing your reality checks.. what dream sign are you doing them too?

nothing in particular. since, as I described earlier, both of my dreams were waking up in my own bed in my own appartment, I only had a very strange feeling, like my body is floating, and that's how I thought "maybe I am in a dream?" and started to do RC. in normal dreams I never have this feeling and never remember to do RC. which is very annoying because I keep the list of my dream signs and see them almost every night and yet don't remember to RC when I see them!

neverlandjulia wrote: nothing in particular. since, as I described earlier, both of my dreams were waking up in my own bed in my own appartment, I only had a very strange feeling, like my body is floating, and that's how I thought "maybe I am in a dream?" and started to do RC. in normal dreams I never have this feeling and never remember to do RC. which is very annoying because I keep the list of my dream signs and see them almost every night and yet don't remember to RC when I see them!

So you arent doing reality checks to your dream sign? eg by dream sign, I mean things that when those things are happening in real life you do a reality check. That's probably your issue then. You need to be doing your reality checks to something during your waking hours which is also appearing in your dreams.. so you will follow throu and do reality check too those too.

Just random reality checks dont work for many (thou do for some) need to be doing the reality checks to something in their waking life which appears in dreams too. ..........

I personally believe everyone (as long as they are capable of remembering their dreams) can have LDs.. its a matter of just finding the right technique for you.

Ok, I didn't understand your question. I do reality check whenever I see dream sign though 1. Sometimes it's hard to remember because I often dream about dogs and I see them all the time so sometimes I don't pay enough attention because it's like 10 dogs during one day... or for example, I dream about being in my own appartment, so how am I supposed to do RC for that... haha 2. Sometimes it's impossible because I dream about people, whom I NEVER see in the real life. See my struggle? ;)

If your dream sign is seeing a dog.. you should be then doing a reality check EVERYTIME you see one in real life.. otherwise you may not start doing reality checks when you see one in a dream as you arent then getting into a habit of reality checking everytime one is seen. You need to turn things into a habit and even missing doing it occassionally, will not turn it into a habit. So then its likely to fail.

Your appartment as a dream sign.. think about what you do during the day there or see there, in which you could do a reality check EVERY TIME its seen seen or done while awake. It could be something like on entering a certain room do a reality check (If you use a room, make sure the room you choose is one in which you often enter in your dreams).

think too about what activities you do in your appartment in your dreams? If you are in your home.. you must be doing something there :) . is there a common activity there you could try to get into the habit of reality checking with before you start doing it. If you dream of waking up there.. you may need to be doing reality checks all the time (not missing doing them) every time you wake up thou as we usually only wake up once in every 24hr period, that may not be enough to get into your subconsciousness to do it (but that does sound like it needs to be one of your reality checks).

How many times do you reality check doing the day? (Just looking at a list by the bed saying when you should reality check isnt enough). 10 times a day probably would be good if you've been trying for a while with doing it less often.

jesus I am so FRUSTRATED! last night I had false awakening again and I tried to stabilisase it so I rubbed my hands and yet I still woke up after 3 seconds!! holy mother of god...

Keep trying. If you think the dream environment will collapse then it will. Rub your hands, intensify your sensations, and think that it will work. If the dream is about to fade, don't give up without a fight; continue rubbing your hands, your body, the floor, walls, spin, somersault, and even grab a dream object in order to anchor yourself there. Then don't waste any time; immediately execute your plan of action, e.g., fly to the moon, have a romantic dinner with a celebrity you find attractive, go back in time and talk to Buddha, etc.

And remember... every time the lucid dream starts to fade, apply techniques to bring it back. It may also be worth reminding yourself once in a while that it is all a dream so that you don't lose consciousness (waking up is not the only worry).

Another thing...

A return to your perceived sleeping body doesn't mean it is the end of the lucid dreaming experience. Michael Raduga said it well in "The Phase" guidebook, page 219: "Keep in mind that trying to immediately separate upon awakening is a skill of the utmost importance; one that is worth honing from the very beginning, never forgotten."

Try to be happy that you actually become aware it was a false awakening. Focus on the positives. Feeling frustrated wont help things. See each opportunity as a chance to learn more about staying in the dream. Lots of us have issues with hanging in there (currently myself included..but Im slowly finding better things which help).

Michael Raduga said it well in "The Phase" guidebook, page 219: "Keep in mind that trying to immediately separate upon awakening is a skill of the utmost importance; one that is worth honing from the very beginning, never forgotten."

I completely agree with that.

Summerlander wrote: Keep trying. If you think the dream environment will collapse then it will. Rub your hands, intensify your sensations, and think that it will work. If the dream is about to fade, don't give up without a fight; continue rubbing your hands, your body, the floor, walls, spin, somersault, and even grab a dream object in order to anchor yourself there. Then don't waste any time; immediately execute your plan of action, e.g., fly to the moon, have a romantic dinner with a celebrity you find attractive, go back in time and talk to Buddha, etc.

And remember... every time the lucid dream starts to fade, apply techniques to bring it back. It may also be worth reminding yourself once in a while that it is all a dream so that you don't lose consciousness (waking up is not the only worry).

Another thing...

A return to your perceived sleeping body doesn't mean it is the end of the lucid dreaming experience. Michael Raduga said it well in "The Phase" guidebook, page 219: "Keep in mind that trying to immediately separate upon awakening is a skill of the utmost importance; one that is worth honing from the very beginning, never forgotten."

oh God, if I only had time to try to even one of those things, that would be amazing. But actually it lasted only 3 seconds during which I was still lying in my bed (I recognised it was a dream because the feeling was weird and my bed was in different place of the room) and I didn't even make it to get out of it, I could just move my hands, nothing more.

I don't really know what Michael Raduga had in mind... what's so difficult in recognising when you're no longer dreaming? or maybe I didn't understand the quote right?

another question from another topic that I hope you guys will know answer for is ; once I become more aware, stable in dreams and will have more control over them, is it possible to create a dream character? for example, I would like to meet a girl, who looks very similar to some person I know, but doesn't look exactly the same, she dresses differently or has different haircut or different name and personality, I don't know. Is that possible or do we see only the people who we know inside out in real life?

What Raduga means is that it can be very easy to separate from your perceived sleeping body in a dream body that is then free to perambulate in a lucid dream environment. This is apparently easier upon awakenings (after having slept) as the brain is naturally primed for the hybrid state of mind that heralds wakefulness while dreaming.

On creating dream characters: it's very possible and I have done it several times. With a little practice you'll be able to materialise them out of thin air.

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Ok, thank you for the explanation :) The thing is, I wanted a certain character to appear in my dream, so I kept thinking about him and imagining him during the day and before falling asleep, and yesterday I had a dream and I sort of felt he was there, because in the dream I was going to eat dinner with someone but after waking up I had no recall of their looks whatsoever, I just had this specific feeling that that were them. And I was wondering if that's because my brain couldn't create the image of the person I don't know in real life.

I don't think that's the reason. You could mould a dream character's looks like an artist in a lucid dream if you like. Don't think your brain is limited. It has enough power to render the mind limitless in its creative resources. The mind has an abstractionist potential that we can hone to our advantage. Elevate your lucidity, which will make it easier for you to remember the details, and then have fun with your desired character. ;)

neverlandjulia wrote: oh God, if I only had time to try to even one of those things, that would be amazing. But actually it lasted only 3 seconds during which I was still lying in my bed (I recognised it was a dream because the feeling was weird and my bed was in different place of the room) and I didn't even make it to get out of it, I could just move my hands, nothing more.

I don't really know what Michael Raduga had in mind... what's so difficult in recognising when you're no longer dreaming? or maybe I didn't understand the quote right?

another question from another topic that I hope you guys will know answer for is ; once I become more aware, stable in dreams and will have more control over them, is it possible to create a dream character? for example, I would like to meet a girl, who looks very similar to some person I know, but doesn't look exactly the same, she dresses differently or has different haircut or different name and personality, I don't know. Is that possible or do we see only the people who we know inside out in real life?

umm quite possibly cause you were in your dream experiencing being in a bed laying probably much like your physical body, this may of made you think more of your physical body laying on a bed which probably didnt at all help things.

You could try to quickly get out of that bed next time by aggressively rolling out of it. This will either wake you right up or go the other way and help disconnect your thoughts from laying in a bed which may help. (It's also likely to send you into an OBE if you are very close to waking up like you were so be prepared for that result too).

Or you could of immediately thought of someone you know (who dont live in your house so you know its part of the dream) walking into the room before doing whatever else you needed to desperately do to try to keep you into that dream. I find it takes a few seconds for the dream character to walk in but if your dream lasted for a few seconds.. it may of been enough time to happen had you thought of someone doing that right away (and then that person may be able to get your attention enough to help you stay there). I suggest to think of it being someone you know as you will have then less doubts of creating a DC and having it walk into the room. Just think of the person coming in.. no effort is needed in thinking about what they look like, just think of them.

or as you did.. try rubbing hands again or you may find throwing the dream blankets off the bed may help (actually that is what I'd probably try to do to stabilise if I was in another bed after a quick thought "boyfriend about to walk in). Interacting with the dream even if its just in bed could be helpful.

refreshing the topic, because I've got another question but don't want to start a new one not to clutter the forum

Yesterday, I had sort of lucid experience though I am not sure what it was. In my dream most of the time I was dreaming normally, but during some particular, emotional scene I suddenly started feeling things much stronger and clearer and I realised this is a dream. I tried to move to stabilise the dream but every time I tried to get my hands together I felt that the dream is slipping. I could only lie (the scene was in my bed, as usually when I have short LDs...) and go with the flow of what was happening around but I woke up after 15 seconds anyway. this is also very weird because 1. I keep dream journal, I always analyse what is happening in my dreams so I could recognise that I'm dreaming the next time I do, I keep the list of my dream signs, read it before going to bed, I perform mindful reality checks during the day when I see the dream signs. and yet, NONE of my lucid dreams involved recognising that I'm dreaming by seeing unusual situation or my dream sign - I always realise that I'm dreaming just because of the strange feeling. in that case, is that a LD after all, or maybe only some OBE? and does that mean that keeping a dream journal or performing RC doesn't make any sense for me?

Sorry no easy answers, just do whatever is feeling right for you.

I tried to move to stabilise the dream but every time I tried to get my hands together I felt that the dream is slipping. I could only lie (the scene was in my bed, as usually when I have short LDs...) and go with the flow of what was happening around but I woke up after 15 seconds anyway.

Sounds like with awareness you are becoming less relaxed (hence can only lie without being negatively affected). If this is the case.. do you know if you may be able to stay in the altered state longer (be it a dream state or an OBE state) if you just meditated from there (eg progressive body relaxation till you cant feel it well), maybe work on further relaxing once you gain awareness that something has changed, rather then doing anything right at that point? (if you stayed relaxed and held the state longer.. maybe it would then help you be more stable after that to do something??). You could both do progressive body relaxation and think about someone about to walk into your room at the same time in between the thoughts of "my eyes are relaxing and softening" "my mouth relaxes" etc etc.

It sounds to me that the rubbing hands together isnt a good stabilization technique for you so you need to try other things to do instead. You need to be prepared that you may need to experiment before you know what is best for you. (think of it as developing your own technique).

taniaaust1 wrote: Sorry no easy answers, just do whatever is feeling right for you.

I tried to move to stabilise the dream but every time I tried to get my hands together I felt that the dream is slipping. I could only lie (the scene was in my bed, as usually when I have short LDs...) and go with the flow of what was happening around but I woke up after 15 seconds anyway.

Sounds like with awareness you are becoming less relaxed (hence can only lie without being negatively affected). If this is the case.. do you know if you may be able to stay in the altered state longer (be it a dream state or an OBE state) if you just meditated from there (eg progressive body relaxation till you cant feel it well), maybe work on further relaxing once you gain awareness that something has changed, rather then doing anything right at that point? (if you stayed relaxed and held the state longer.. maybe it would then help you be more stable after that to do something??). You could both do progressive body relaxation and think about someone about to walk into your room at the same time in between the thoughts of "my eyes are relaxing and softening" "my mouth relaxes" etc etc.

It sounds to me that the rubbing hands together isnt a good stabilization technique for you so you need to try other things to do instead. You need to be prepared that you may need to experiment before you know what is best for you. (think of it as developing your own technique).

Hm... I don't know about meditating because I suck at it in real life and when I get LD I rarely can think about it before the dream slips away. I will try being more relaxed first and then doing something though in this one particular dream someone was standing above me and talking to me so I completely forgot about anything else but responding him, while lying still. When it comes to the right stabilisation technique, do you know any that can be performed while you can't really get out of the bed?

Hm... I don't know about meditating because I suck at it in real life and when I get LD I rarely can think about it before the dream slips away. I will try being more relaxed first and then doing something though in this one particular dream someone was standing above me and talking to me so I completely forgot about anything else but responding him, while lying still. When it comes to the right stabilisation technique, do you know any that can be performed while you can't really get out of the bed?

Try to engage yourself in what you are experiencing of the LD and using that to stabilise. eg could be voice, could be scent etc. Could be stroking the sheets of the dream bed. Try to be creative and use whatever is there in your dream to stabilise it.

shadowz19995 wrote: Actually when you said that they are people you have never seen before sorry but that's not possible. You always dream of people you know or have seen before. You don't have to know them it could have been a stranger on the subway but as long as you saw him you're subconscious will remember it.

I disagree with your post. I'll explain why.

One thing Ive noticed in dreams and LDs is that the subconsciousness can create completely new things out of things its seen before as it often mixes things together eg Ive found myself in houses which are a combo of different houses Ive been in in real life.. by putting parts of different things Ive seen together, my subconscious created an entirely new house.

Ive found this same thing happening with very strange, non earth animals in my dreams. My subconsciousness will mix up parts of animals Ive seen to create some weird kind of animal it makes up. So from that, Im positive that my subconsciousness would do exactly the same thing with people Ive seen.. and create entirely new characters from mixing up body parts from others Ive seen in the past eg a nose from this person, eyes from another, hair from another etc and you then get a completely new person one could say.

We also know that the subconsciousness can also change the shape or length of a body part in its symbolism.. eg I looked at my hand while in LD and I had plants growing out from my finger tips.. or I look at my hand and see the image I have by my nic. I have certainly not seen my hand like that in real life and my subconsciousness made that up to express something.

jeffreym wrote: So I was thinking this morning-- why did I have such a full on lucid dream after so many years of not. I recently started meditating in the middle of the day. Just 10 minute 'resets'. Focus on breath & still the mind. BEING. Allowing the thoughts to come in, persist, and go. Notice the wind but not focus on it. That sort of thing. I'm convinced this is the trigger that brought back this ability.

Yes Im sure it was responsible for your spontanous LD. What you did there is a a kind of awareness technique. Be in the moment and be aware. Doing awareness techniques in life can trigger LDs.

As far as your past dropping out of LD experiences go.. that is something which one uses what is called "stabilization" techniques for. If you decide to go into doing LDs again, you'll find info on this forum on the things you can do to stabilise your LD to make you less likely to just drop out (or to even help you pull yourself back into it more some).