Lucid nightmares?

Hey everyone. I'm new, obviously, and I had a quick question that I came up with. A few nights ago, I experienced pain for the first time in a dream. I had just started to fall asleep (sort of the same state when you can trip over something in your dream and jump up in bed) , when I dreamed someone punched me in the face. I literally, jumped back from my pillow, feeling my face. However, the pain that I had felt a moment before was gone. I was curious if anyone has ever experienced pain in a full length lucid dream?

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ofcoz, i think every dreamer experience pain in their dream. but for me it happened for only one time wen am 15 years old. i fall from a tree or something in a dream and made me wakeup. i felt that pain for some seconds. i actually had some problem for walking for that few seconds. wen u r in a dream it is real for ur brain but wen u wake up sometime brain have some time lag to get in the reality. it happens, completely natural. and welcome to the group.

In a lucid (or regular) dream, what you expect to happen, will actually happen. If you expect, or want with an intuition, to feel pain in a dream, you will probably feel pain. For what you experienced, I'm not exactly sure why that happened, but I don't think it's a lucid nightmare, because you weren't in a total dream state. At least that's what I think happened to you maybe. Anyway, the subconscious can play all kinds of weird stuff on you, so don't underestimate it.

Yea, you can feel pain in a lucid dream. I once slipped and fell on my hand in a dream and it hurt, but it goes away when you start doing something else and you don't focus on it anymore. I also tried pinching myself in a lucid dream and I didn't wake up, and just felt the pain for a little bit. But it is not very common for me to feel pain. I jumped off a building once and landing on my face, but felt nothing.

Yes, its very possible to feel pain in the same way as you would in real life, in a dream where someone is fully lucid

In a lucid (or regular) dream, what you expect to happen, will actually happen.

That is so true. One can also have ones real life normal "instinctual" thoughts come into lucid dreaming which may cause one issues even if one is fully aware one is dreaming at the time.

I wont try flying any more in LDs as one time when I tried that, I threw myself in the air (from standing position..thinking "fly" and expecting to fly but I guess my waking instinct when I felt myself falling, may of been to think of hitting the ground even thou i wasnt aware I'd thought it. I found myself slamming (belly flopping) into the concrete I'd been standing on before my attempt to fly.

This REALLY REALLY HURT.. i was in agony (felt like I broke ribs) as that had happened (felt the same as if I'd done something like that in real life and not bothered to put my hands out to save my fall). That's enough to put anyone off of trying to fly in a LD, its made me paranoid due to the pain one is capable of feeling in a LD (ive since flown in a LD but did it safely sitting in a chair!! flying chair). (Fortunately the pain did soon leave but it was such a shock too).

Makes me wonder if one could die in a LD, what would I have experienced if I'd jumped off a tall building in my LD instead of trying to take off from the ground?.. (I know one can do that in a normal dream no issues but if one did it in a LD could that be dangerous??? would it be easier to give oneself a heart attack due to the waking consciousness being present???)

first of all tani, dont get too overthink(new word :lol: ) in dream. its just a dream (i hate to say that) u r not going to die in ur dream, this is not MATRIX movie. (u seen it right?). if thats the point nobody is going to live for long. in ur LD y dont u try to think it wont happen. in a LD i jumped in to a canyon and landed on rock, i dont even felt anything. if u want to get pain and expect pain u will surely get wat u wish for. and u r saying tani, that U quit on flying bcoz of that pain experience, u r just silly. i thought u r an expert on this dream exploration. dont make me think i was wrong. looking forward to ur response. i wont let u scare our fellow young dreamers. i bet u can even shot in ur head with a shot gun(results-no head) in the dream and u will surely wake up unharmed. :geek:

R99 wrote: first of all tani, dont get too overthink(new word :lol: ) in dream. its just a dream (i hate to say that) u r not going to die in ur dream, this is not MATRIX movie. (u seen it right?). if thats the point nobody is going to live for long. in ur LD y dont u try to think it wont happen. in a LD i jumped in to a canyon and landed on rock, i dont even felt anything. if u want to get pain and expect pain u will surely get wat u wish for. and u r saying tani, that U quit on flying bcoz of that pain experience, u r just silly. i thought u r an expert on this dream exploration. dont make me think i was wrong. looking forward to ur response. i wont let u scare our fellow young dreamers. i bet u can even shot in ur head with a shot gun(results-no head) in the dream and u will surely wake up unharmed. :geek:

I always overthink..that is why Im so smart :lol: .

Maybe everything is like the Matrix :D

I dont know why some of dont feel anything.. if I jumped in a LD and landed on a sharp rock.. I know I would feel it (unless I choose to think of the sharp rock as something else). In my LDs I tend to feel everything like I do in real life, touch and all my senses are the same (that's what makes the things feel very real and no different for me then physical reality).

Yep.. I dont try to fly due to that experience.. as I said..i had that experience not expecting to fall, I truely throught I'd fly if I threw myself in the air from the ground to do so .. but obviously there must of been some "subsconscious" (I wasnt aware of it) doubt there or something in my LD skills. Pain in a dream feels just as bad as pain in real life and not something I wish to experience. Its no different to hurting yourself doing something in real life and then avoiding doing it again due to that.

I dont care what people think of me cause Im scared to fly in LDs. (im going to change my flying chair into a flying carpet thou..as that sounds more trendy :lol:

I may scare myself to death if I jumped off a LD building and fall and then think Im going to die or hurt myself cause its the automatic kind of thought when falling towards ground (seriously.. I have a heart specialist appointment on Thursday). Not all thoughts are rational, even in real life eg some people are scared of tiny non dangerous spiders! But i guess a fear of falling is probably a natural human instinct.

R99 can you shoot yourself in the head while having a LD and tell me what happens? (what happens when one is doing something suicidal but knows its only a dream??? would the trigger just jam and the gun not work??? or would it blew half ones head off and then one be walking around in a dream with only half a head??). What happens if we try to kill ourselves in a LD??? (or does it just wake one up?).

Ive never died in any dream.. in my non lucid dreams.. if Im about to die or dying.. I just wake up. (I know people can die (not physically) in normal dreams thou but is it possible to experience "dying" in a lucid dream? or does the waking conscious mind then shift things, so one doesnt die in the LD seeing you also do know you are dreaming?)

Im no expert in dream exploration :) (I thought it was funny you said that, thanks :lol: ) .. Ive just did lucid dreaming years ago, used to be a regular lucid dreamer (before taking a long break and then getting into it a bit again)

y dont u get that point, i was trying to say. u wont get wounded in physical world through out LD. like Neo do in Matrix just believe. do not link between physical world and dream world. the physics is not applicable in dream world. flying is a sense of freedom, that every dreamer need to experience to know its pleasure. u really need to read that book of Robert Wagonner. and tani that experiment of suicide by a gun is also mentioned in that book. if u die in a LD maybe u become a ghost, or reborn with another body, u get a third person view, list is long, differ by person to person, i never tried that out, but i will, and let u know.

taniaaust1 wrote: but obviously there must of been some "subsconscious" (I wasnt aware of it) doubt there or something in my LD skills. Pain in a dream feels just as bad as pain in real life and not something I wish to experience. Its no different to hurting yourself doing something in real life and then avoiding doing it again due to that.

Why don't you ask your subconscious about it then? Just face it with full truth, and demand an insightful answer about why do you actually get hurt. When you know the answer, try to overcome your fears by shouting "I don't want to feel pain anymore" to the dream.

taniaaust1 wrote: Im no expert in dream exploration :) (I thought it was funny you said that, thanks :lol: ) .. Ive just did lucid dreaming years ago, used to be a regular lucid dreamer (before taking a long break and then getting into it a bit again)

That is exactly like my situation. I knew about lucid dreaming in 2011, practiced it for 4 - 6 months (but didn't actually achieve any good results, unfortunately), took a long break, and now I'm back here with full intentions and hopes for the best. ;)

R99 wrote: y dont u get that point, i was trying to say. u wont get wounded in physical world through out LD. like Neo do in Matrix just believe. do not link between physical world and dream world. the physics is not applicable in dream world. flying is a sense of freedom, that every dreamer need to experience to know its pleasure. u really need to read that book of Robert Wagonner. and tani that experiment of suicide by a gun is also mentioned in that book. if u die in a LD maybe u become a ghost, or reborn with another body, u get a third person view, list is long, differ by person to person, i never tried that out, but i will, and let u know.

I totally agree with you. The list of creative, non-harmful deaths are endless. I've never thought I would say that.

Again Tani, if you still insist on not trying to fly, then you're free. Forget about it for now; there are various other experiments you can do in a lucid dream that don't involve being weightlessly airborne. After you feel experienced enough and ready to punch 'your small fear of flying' in the face, then go ahead.

Tani is a good name, it means in Afrikaans "Aunt" Tani has an answer for everything, but I take by now a lot of her advise,and told experience with a pinch of salt. I am sorry that Tani got hurt in a lucid dream,which for me is hard to understand. I have felt a lot in my dreams,but never bad pain. The nearest to pain for me could be being scared. In my opinion we should strive to help our members with positive advise, and not with our personal life. Also saying you must do that, would sound better " You could try that,it worked for me". Lets have joy and fun. :)

taniaaust1 wrote: Yes, its very possible to feel pain in the same way as you would in real life, in a dream where someone is fully lucid

In a lucid (or regular) dream, what you expect to happen, will actually happen.

That is so true. One can also have ones real life normal "instinctual" thoughts come into lucid dreaming which may cause one issues even if one is fully aware one is dreaming at the time.

I wont try flying any more in LDs as one time when I tried that, I threw myself in the air (from standing position..thinking "fly" and expecting to fly but I guess my waking instinct when I felt myself falling, may of been to think of hitting the ground even thou i wasnt aware I'd thought it. I found myself slamming (belly flopping) into the concrete I'd been standing on before my attempt to fly.

This REALLY REALLY HURT.. i was in agony (felt like I broke ribs) as that had happened (felt the same as if I'd done something like that in real life and not bothered to put my hands out to save my fall). That's enough to put anyone off of trying to fly in a LD, its made me paranoid due to the pain one is capable of feeling in a LD (ive since flown in a LD but did it safely sitting in a chair!! flying chair). (Fortunately the pain did soon leave but it was such a shock too).

Makes me wonder if one could die in a LD, what would I have experienced if I'd jumped off a tall building in my LD instead of trying to take off from the ground?.. (I know one can do that in a normal dream no issues but if one did it in a LD could that be dangerous??? would it be easier to give oneself a heart attack due to the waking consciousness being present???)

R99 wrote: i thought u r an expert on this dream exploration. dont make me think i was wrong. looking forward to ur response. i wont let u scare our fellow young dreamers. i bet u can even shot in ur head with a shot gun(results-no head) in the dream and u will surely wake up unharmed. :geek:

I have a similar view for you(taniaaust1) as R99's( of u being an expert), and maybe that's a reason you feel pain. Because in a dream you are as conscious as waking life and one feels pain in waking life and therefore you think and believe about pain in dreams and therefore experience pain.

R99 wrote: y dont u get that point, i was trying to say. u wont get wounded in physical world through out LD. like Neo do in Matrix just believe. do not link between physical world and dream world.

That's untrue as I once was PHYSCIALLY hurt via a dream (I do since wonder if it was an OBE but it did come across as a dream at the time). In a dream.. my arm was cut by a sword. I woke up to find a strange long mark on my arm (not a scratch but a mark where the sword had cut me)... my arm then swelled up in that area (as if the dream wound got infected or something) and my PHYSICAL arm was quite swollen for days due to this. (but yeah I agree people shouldnt worry about being injured in dreams as I think its extremely rare as I havent heard anyone else being so except via OBES..hence I wonder if it was rather a OBE which injured me..thou I thought it was a dream).

After my incident I did a lot of research and found this mentioned in occultic books.. what happened to me is called "repercussion" can happen in OBE (Ive since come across it in 2-3 books). It is said to occur when ones mind impacts upon the physical body and throu the thought.. manifests thou the auric field, injury then upon the physical body. (Ive since come across two others online into occultic things who also had this same kind of thing happen to them and were injured during an OBE). If you read some very advanced books on this stuff you will come across the term and this. Those who get stigmata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmata (the wounds christ had strangely appearing on their physical body) that too is said to be a form of repercussion (where the thoughts actually impact upon the physical body)...hypnosis has also been known also to have the ability to do this too (thoughts impacting on physical body and manifesting wounds. There has been cases of hypnosis where people have manifested burn marks on their arm after being poked by something like a pen they are told is a cigarette).

Anyway.. reprecussion is how one can be physically injured due to a dream. Its rare but can occur.

PrototypeTEGTA wrote:

taniaaust1 wrote:but obviously there must of been some "subsconscious" (I wasnt aware of it) doubt there or something in my LD skills. Pain in a dream feels just as bad as pain in real life and not something I wish to experience. Its no different to hurting yourself doing something in real life and then avoiding doing it again due to that.

Why don't you ask your subconscious about it then? Just face it with full truth, and demand an insightful answer about why do you actually get hurt. When you know the answer, try to overcome your fears by shouting "I don't want to feel pain anymore" to the dream.

I havent asked my subconsciousness about it as I believe I already know what occured.. it was caused by my thoughts due to the normal human programming we all have due to our normal lives and the fact that Im a very powerful manifestor of my thoughts at times (even in real life).

I wouldnt have had any time shout "I dont want to feel pain" as I was falling as the fall lasted less then a second (as I said it wasnt from any height but I'd thrown myself from standing on ground so didnt get time to consciously think anything). I know one may be able to program oneself not to have any pain in dreams by repeative thinking "I dont feel pain in my dreams" over time but its not something I'd bother wasting my time in doing as that's the ONLY time Ive felt "severe" pain in a LD anyway, so I dont see it as an issue.. (I dont give a crap that I cant just fly thou it would be nice).... I have funner things I like to do then spending time programming myself.

I guess having everything feeling real in dreams also adds to the whole dream experience too.. I'd hate to be having dreams which had a unreal quality to them (thou I do know they arent real.. its good thou having dreams that still feel it). I dont know if I'd like to loose that reality aspect to it even if its a negative aspect (my DCs are already feeling quite unreal most of the time..to the point where I usually ignore them)

That is exactly like my situation. I knew about lucid dreaming in 2011, practiced it for 4 - 6 months (but didn't actually achieve any good results, unfortunately), took a long break, and now I'm back here with full intentions and hopes for the best. ;)

I was lucky.. I did have quite good results. I left doing LD due to health reasons which made it on and off for me to be able to do. Also worried at one point it may of been negatively affecting me health as I went throu a period of a 2-3? weeks were I was ONLY lucid dreaming (up to 8-9 dreams per night..all night long) and thou that isnt a normal state of mine (so I usually dont mention it), I wondered if it was bad for my brain as I felt like my brain wasnt getting to rest as it was constantly then thinking both day and night. Im not sure if brain being constantly awake all the time is healthy.. the whole thing felt like I was being overly mentally stimulated.

Again Tani, if you still insist on not trying to fly, then you're free. Forget about it for now; there are various other experiments you can do in a lucid dream that don't involve being weightlessly airborne. After you feel experienced enough and ready to punch 'your small fear of flying' in the face, then go ahead.

Yeah.. I dont really care about the flying thing.. its no big deal at all :D (thou many here tend to think it is.. I do fly/float in OBEs thou). I guess if I really cared about it, I'd work on fixing my issue with it but it just isnt all that important to me.

Pain and Harm are to different things.

In fact pain can be pleasurable.... I LOVE SPICY FOOD! It's a pain that causes no harm (Ok, maybe harm to my colon the next day! ;)),but for some reason I like the feeling when I eat it. It really wakes me up and makes me feel alive. So pain itself is harmless, but in life it tends to alert us to any harm our body is going through. But spicy food tricks the mind and triggers pain, but without any immediate threat to ourselves.

So if you know 100% you will not be harmed in a lucid dream, then the pain is just uncomfortable when it happens and nothing more, and shouldn't stop people from trying again. I once got the notion in a lucid dream to rip off my left arm just to see what would happen, and I felt pain so I stopped. I should try it again and practice what I am preaching!

To Taniaaust1, I wasn't there in your dream and don't know the full story. Perhaps it was a lucid dream more vivid than any I have ever had and I'd be feeling apprehensive too after an experience like that.

taniaaust1 wrote: There has been cases of hypnosis where people have manifested burn marks on their arm after being poked by something like a pen they are told is a cigarette).

I've heard of that. You must have to truly believe 100% for it to happen. And it makes sense when you think about it. Hot objects don't cause burn marks, the body creates them as a response to heal it. The redness and the swelling and the liquid under a burn blister are all created by the body as a response. So it is feasible that the mind can create wounds on the body trying to heal something that wasn't inflicted in the first place by shear belief that it experienced harm.

HAGART wrote: . I once got the notion in a lucid dream to rip off my left arm just to see what would happen, and I felt pain so I stopped. I should try it again and practice what I am preaching!

lol.. Our minds are a very powerful thing. I wonder how many can saw an arm off in a dream who are having a quite vivid LD? We know its a dream but our minds still get in the way.

Let me know when you've managed to saw your arm off :lol: I wont be trying that... not cause I think it would hurt me but cause I dont think I have the stomach to do that, even in a LD.. I'd probably throw up in my LD. So no thanks to that experience.. if I dont want arms I'll just try to visualize myself without them!!

taniaaust1 wrote:

HAGART wrote:. I once got the notion in a lucid dream to rip off my left arm just to see what would happen, and I felt pain so I stopped. I should try it again and practice what I am preaching!

lol.. Our minds are a very powerful thing. I wonder how many can saw an arm off in a dream who are having a quite vivid LD? We know its a dream but our minds still get in the way.

Let me know when you've managed to saw your arm off :lol: I wont be trying that... not cause I think it would hurt me but cause I dont think I have the stomach to do that, even in a LD.. I'd probably throw up in my LD. So no thanks to that experience.. if I dont want arms I'll just try to visualize myself without them!!

BUT now that I brought it up, I should try it again. I've had a lucid dream dry spell these past two weeks, but with a strong intention and a task to perform it tends to spawn a lucid dream for me so.... finger's crossed? What am I saying..... I HOPE I TEAR MY ARM OFF TONIGHT!? :twisted: What's wrong with ME! :lol:

Actually, it would be a good experience to share, so in a way... I do hope I am lucid and try it again. Even if I fail, it would be an interesting story. Not all my lucid dreams feel like I have a body. They are mostly visual and audible only and this endeavor would have to be done in a vivid lucid dream where you can actually feel like you have an arm in the first place. And the challenge isn't about seeing any gruesome details, but the SENSATION of ripping off one arm and holding it in the other.

HAGART wrote: I got the idea a while back after Jam Jam opened a discussion about crazy ideas to do in a lucid dream. (I don't think Jam Jam has been on in a while....) BUT That is how it started. I don't normally do things like that. And I wasn't sawing it off, I grabbed my left arm above the elbow with my right hand and tried to yank it off. I wasn't looking at it, so there would be no blood or gruesomeness anyway. HOWEVER, the sensation was too real to continue.....

BUT now that I brought it up, I should try it again. I've had a lucid dream dry spell these past two weeks, but with a strong intention and a task to perform it tends to spawn a lucid dream for me so.... finger's crossed? What am I saying..... I HOPE I TEAR MY ARM OFF TONIGHT!? :twisted: Wrongs wrong with ME! :lol:

(actually, it would be a good experience to share, so in a way... I do hope I am lucid and try it again. Even if I fail, it would be an interesting story......)

Yeah interesting story no matter what happens :mrgreen:

Quite possibly you will find yourself not strong enough to rip your own arm off if normal waking thoughts intrude. I suggest to get some rope and tie your arm to a LD car which is about to drive off. *gives me an image of car skiing... umm sounds fun

taniaaust1 wrote: Quite possibly you will find yourself not strong enough to rip your own arm off

I tried to look up that dream I had on my dream journal, but I can't find it. Perhaps I didn't write it down and now wish I had. (Another good reason to record your dreams if others are reading this). So I can only go on what I recall.

Now that I remember, I think I did fail because I didn't have the strength. It also hurt, but it was my strength that stopped me. And the pain too. It's a mind hurdle and a good challenge.

taniaaust1 wrote: I wondered if it was bad for my brain as I felt like my brain wasnt getting to rest as it was constantly then thinking both day and night. Im not sure if brain being constantly awake all the time is healthy.. the whole thing felt like I was being overly mentally stimulated.

I have to do a research about this topic sometime. But I don't think it's that big of a problem, unless you are an absolute expert lucid dreamer that you experience really long lucid dreams, or too many of them at a night. And that is which most of us find hard to achieve- long lucid dreams.

taniaaust1 wrote: Yeah.. I dont really care about the flying thing.. its no big deal at all :D (thou many here tend to think it is.. I do fly/float in OBEs thou). I guess if I really cared about it, I'd work on fixing my issue with it but it just isnt all that important to me.

Okay then, if that's good for you, it's also good to me. Though, I really want to fly in my first vivid lucid dream. About OBEs...Because they are really some inner-generated experiences, and a lot of people doubt their existence, I find it a complex and a deep topic to actually talk about at this point. Even more complex than lucid dreaming. And of course, since I haven't had any meaningful or vivid lucid dreams yet, I can't factually drop into an OBE. I still have a great belief towards them nonetheless. I think I've read somewhere that you can order your dream when you are lucid to project your consciousness outside of your physical body, therefore, turning the highly awake mental state of lucid dreaming into Astral Projection or OBEs. That's what I'll try to do eventually when I get the chance.

HAGART wrote:

taniaaust1 wrote:HAGART wrote:. I once got the notion in a lucid dream to rip off my left arm just to see what would happen, and I felt pain so I stopped. I should try it again and practice what I am preaching!

lol.. Our minds are a very powerful thing. I wonder how many can saw an arm off in a dream who are having a quite vivid LD? We know its a dream but our minds still get in the way.

Let me know when you've managed to saw your arm off :lol: I wont be trying that... not cause I think it would hurt me but cause I dont think I have the stomach to do that, even in a LD.. I'd probably throw up in my LD. So no thanks to that experience.. if I dont want arms I'll just try to visualize myself without them!!

BUT now that I brought it up, I should try it again. I've had a lucid dream dry spell these past two weeks, but with a strong intention and a task to perform it tends to spawn a lucid dream for me so.... finger's crossed? What am I saying..... I HOPE I TEAR MY ARM OFF TONIGHT!? :twisted: What's wrong with ME! :lol:

Actually, it would be a good experience to share, so in a way... I do hope I am lucid and try it again. Even if I fail, it would be an interesting story. Not all my lucid dreams feel like I have a body. They are mostly visual and audible only and this endeavor would have to be done in a vivid lucid dream where you can actually feel like you have an arm in the first place. And the challenge isn't about seeing any gruesome details, but the SENSATION of ripping off one arm and holding it in the other.

I'm never trying to rip my arm off in a dream. Or at least for the now being. Still though, it might not be that painful to sense your ripped arm. You can trick your brain to make you feel an intense, but pleasant sensation of that scenario. You know, it's essentially the same thing as the authentic feeling of eating a whole, dirty brick in a lucid dream. It might have the yuck feeling to it, but it might also turn out to taste like chocolate. Your expectations and your subconscious' guide the emotions and feelings of the dream.

I was lucid last night and tried to rip my arm off. I grabbed my left arm with my right hand and tried to yank it off. IT DIDN'T WORK!

I felt like I just wasn't strong enough. I started to feel some pain in the ball and socket joint were the arm attaches to the shoulder and I stopped. It felt so real I even thought I may wake up with a pain in my shoulder after doing it, but I didn't. There was no harm done.

But even if I tried attaching my arm to a moving car like Tani suggested or tried to stick it in some large gears of a machine, I think I would chicken out. Why would I do something so negative to myself in a lucid dream? It would ruin it.

Maybe one day I will if I get bored enough in a dream and muster up the inner strength, and don't mind doing something crazy which will ruin it. Why you ask? Simply because it is hard. "Not because it is easy, but because it is hard." And no other reason than that. It is really hard because it goes against everything your mind is telling you.

HAGART wrote: I was lucid last night and tried to rip my arm off. I grabbed my left arm with my right hand and tried to yank it off. IT DIDN'T WORK!

I felt like I just wasn't strong enough. I started to feel some pain in the ball and socket joint were the arm attaches to the shoulder and I stopped. It felt so real I even thought I may wake up with a pain in my shoulder after doing it, but I didn't. There was no harm done.

But even if I tried attaching my arm to a moving car like Tani suggested or tried to stick it in some large gears of a machine, I think I would chicken out. Why would I do something so negative to myself in a lucid dream? It would ruin it.

The thing is it wouldnt ruin your LD if you can completely get past the normal human mind programming we have that ripping our arms off arent going to hurt!

lol.. I understand the challenge of trying to do 'hard" things. Im sometimes drawn to trying something for that very reason. The rip off arm thing.. is a challenge I may be drawn to do if I ever get bored too (cant see that thou happening for a while thou but our discussion has me becoming more and more intregued whether I could do it if I really tried). I do think thou if one is lucid but has ones waking consciousness there not as strong as in real life..that that challenge would be easier to do then. Some may achieve it easy due to that eg If I'd tried something like that last night I may of succeded as thou I knew I was dreaming the degree of waking consciousness I had coming into the dream was varying a lot.

But doing it real fast would be the best way to succede in a rip off arm challenge (thinking about it too much will just bring in natural fears of pain). Maybe someone whos a saddist who enjoys pain could get past that easier then most of us.

PrototypeTEGTA wrote: I have to do a research about this topic sometime. But I don't think it's that big of a problem, unless you are an absolute expert lucid dreamer that you experience really long lucid dreams, or too many of them at a night. And that is which most of us find hard to achieve- long lucid dreams.

I used to have very long lucid dreams and many in one night at one stage (I used to dream up to 7-9 dreams a night, I cant remember now thou how many was my lucid record in one night).. hence it did become an issue for me.. my mind never felt rested as my thoughts were going constantly. I ended up feeling like I needed mental relaxation too... a break from it.

About OBEs...Because they are really some inner-generated experiences, and a lot of people doubt their existence, I find it a complex and a deep topic to actually talk about at this point. Even more complex than lucid dreaming. And of course, since I haven't had any meaningful or vivid lucid dreams yet, I can't factually drop into an OBE. I still have a great belief towards them nonetheless. I think I've read somewhere that you can order your dream when you are lucid to project your consciousness outside of your physical body, therefore, turning the highly awake mental state of lucid dreaming into Astral Projection or OBEs. That's what I'll try to do eventually when I get the chance.

Once you are percieving from a lucid dream state.. this means the subconciousness is manfesting and creating what you are seeing (while images can appear too from your thoughts but that is all they are. still images etc and not reality.. mental thought forms). From that state anything you see is just your subconsciousness and also waking consciousness (if lucid) creating images etc. If you try to OBE from that state you will then just easily dream you are having an OBE as what you think in your dream appears in your dream but it isnt real.

For that reason I myself would never believe an OBE experience I had during a dream is real, it is more likely to be just another creation just via your thoughts appearing real. (it is possible that many false awakenings may in fact thou be astral experiences.. person has woken up but instead of waking up physically, they've woken up to the astral world which can be just like the physical as everything from our physical word leaves an energetic imprint in the astral).

taniaaust1 wrote: .

I used to have very long lucid dreams and many in one night at one stage (I used to dream up to 7-9 dreams a night, I cant remember now thou how many was my lucid record in one night).. hence it did become an issue for me.. my mind never felt rested as my thoughts were going constantly. I ended up feeling like I needed mental relaxation too... a break from it.

do that.. i think u need it.

HAGART wrote: I was lucid last night and tried to rip my arm off. I grabbed my left arm with my right hand and tried to yank it off. IT DIDN'T WORK!

I felt like I just wasn't strong enough. I started to feel some pain in the ball and socket joint were the arm attaches to the shoulder and I stopped. It felt so real I even thought I may wake up with a pain in my shoulder after doing it, but I didn't. There was no harm done.

But even if I tried attaching my arm to a moving car like Tani suggested or tried to stick it in some large gears of a machine, I think I would chicken out. Why would I do something so negative to myself in a lucid dream? It would ruin it.

Maybe one day I will if I get bored enough in a dream and muster up the inner strength, and don't mind doing something crazy which will ruin it. Why you ask? Simply because it is hard. "Not because it is easy, but because it is hard." And no other reason than that. It is really hard because it goes against everything your mind is telling you.

if u r trying to get some pain from dream world dont do it like "its just a dream, nothing gonna get wrong" do it like "i believe that am going to experience the pain in physic world" see if that helps. BUT dont do anyhying like intense as ripping ur arm off.(thats bcoz i believe in the strength of mind. if u believe that u can reduce pain by ur mental power, it works in opposite way too) do simple as bend ur finger opposite way. see if that works.

taniaaust1 wrote:

PrototypeTEGTA wrote:I have to do a research about this topic sometime. But I don't think it's that big of a problem, unless you are an absolute expert lucid dreamer that you experience really long lucid dreams, or too many of them at a night. And that is which most of us find hard to achieve- long lucid dreams.

I used to have very long lucid dreams and many in one night at one stage (I used to dream up to 7-9 dreams a night, I cant remember now thou how many was my lucid record in one night).. hence it did become an issue for me.. my mind never felt rested as my thoughts were going constantly. I ended up feeling like I needed mental relaxation too... a break from it.

About OBEs...Because they are really some inner-generated experiences, and a lot of people doubt their existence, I find it a complex and a deep topic to actually talk about at this point. Even more complex than lucid dreaming. And of course, since I haven't had any meaningful or vivid lucid dreams yet, I can't factually drop into an OBE. I still have a great belief towards them nonetheless. I think I've read somewhere that you can order your dream when you are lucid to project your consciousness outside of your physical body, therefore, turning the highly awake mental state of lucid dreaming into Astral Projection or OBEs. That's what I'll try to do eventually when I get the chance.

Once you are percieving from a lucid dream state.. this means the subconciousness is manfesting and creating what you are seeing (while images can appear too from your thoughts but that is all they are. still images etc and not reality.. mental thought forms). From that state anything you see is just your subconsciousness and also waking consciousness (if lucid) creating images etc. If you try to OBE from that state you will then just easily dream you are having an OBE as what you think in your dream appears in your dream but it isnt real.

For that reason I myself would never believe an OBE experience I had during a dream is real, it is more likely to be just another creation just via your thoughts appearing real. (it is possible that many false awakenings may in fact thou be astral experiences.. person has woken up but instead of waking up physically, they've woken up to the astral world which can be just like the physical as everything from our physical word leaves an energetic imprint in the astral).

So you are saying that it's barely and hardly possible to turn a LD into an OBE?

PrototypeTEGTA wrote: So you are saying that it's barely and hardly possible to turn a LD into an OBE?

Probably thou I could be wrong about that..but from what I do know I'd think it would be extremely hard as one would be extremely likely to just be dream manifesting things.

Thou I have had many LDs and OBES over the years (Im not an expert thou). I wouldnt attempt it as I know how hard it can be at times for people even myself to tell them apart at times, there can be very subtle differences anyway without trying to do it from a dreaming (illusionary) state. You should have your mind as much as possible in your normal waking awareness state (not a subconcious state) if you really want to have a OBE and not a false image of one. I think people trying to do OBES from dream states or people dreaming they OBE, is why so many end up believing they are the same thing.. as I think they just ended up dreaming they had an OBE. (it thou is possible to start dreaming while in an OBE but then one looses their consciousness of their astral body just like one looses ones consciousness of the physicial body when one dreams eg you know you have a physical body cant usually feel it).

I think someone would be highly experienced with the two states to have at least some form of hope of experiencing their real astral body from a dream state. (I dont know if that's possible thou maybe if one was having a false awakening and became aware one was cause I do suspect FAs are often happening from the astral body state thou I dont know that for sure at all).