Help needed to have first lucid dream
I want to have my first lucid dream:
I would like any tips on lucid dreaming for beginners,
I wake up at 3:00 every night naturally, with lots energy, as if i'm ready to start the day. I used to have sleep paralysis, it was terrifying so I found my way of it, then I figured out that it could be used for lucid dreaming and OBEs, so I want in... again .
I would also like to figure which methods are the best for beginners (MILDs,WILDs,WBTB etc.)
THANK YOU!
I replied to your intro and provided links. There is no universal 'best method' for beginners because everyone is different. For me it was the WBTB method. Then I realised DEILD (dream-exit initiated lucid dreaming) was even better (for me). Here is a useful article by Rebecca Turner:
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/17-things-ive-learned-in-17-years-of-lucid-dreaming.html
Also, look at this diagram from Raduga's book:
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Study the Agorithm of Action upon Awakenings
Look at this diagram which is from Michael Raduga's The Phase - A Practical Guidebook. Study it. Employ the techniques, be persistent, patient, and calm. 'The phase' is where everything happens, where you enter the lucid dream world. That is your aim, where you need to focus on. You want to reach the phase state regardless of whether you experience SP or not. And make sure you do it in the morning after a good night's sleep (at least 6 hours).
Examples of techniques for the algorithm:
Listening in; observing images; phantom wiggling. Spend about 5 seconds on each. Cycle through them. Any strange sensation (images/sounds/vibrations) that arises needs to be amplified before you employ a 'separation' method or lucidly enter the dream world in a direct manner.
Quickest route:
The quickest route, if you look at the diagram, is: Awakening > separation attempt > the phase state. It can be this simple. Ideally, you don't want to faff with techniques. The dream-exit initiated lucid dream (DEILD) method employs the same principle. Separating from the sleeping body stencil (out-of-body experience or OOBE) often goes with this. I find it to be the most effective. 8-)
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I hate homework, Summerlander and that was confusing!
I have a simple question: What time do you sleep if you wake up at 3:00 a.m.?
My tried and true method, and we are all different, is to have about 5 hours sleep, and get that deep sleep out of the way, wake up and get out of bed for a while and then go back to sleep for that blessed REM sleep and just dream your brain out! It can sometimes be lucid, but who cares, because those dreams are so vivid and like a vacation from reality.
I think I may have said the same thing as Summerlander, but I dumb it down into simple, stupid words like Dr. Phil.
Yes we are all different but not that different, Hagart. We all have circadian rhythms and sleep cycles, therefore, some things are generic - if not universal. We also have several brief awakenings during the night - most of which are forgotten. If you are fully alert at 3am, you can either go back to sleep or attempt to lucid dream. (But we all know that the best time is after about half a dozen hours when one has been through several cycles and REM is more frequent.)
I don't really understand what homework I gave you and what was so confusing, either. If you read my post properly, you will realise that I have said it can be this simple: awakening > separation attempt > phase state (lucid dreaming).
And a lot of people care about lucid dreaming because such state has perks which mere vivid dreaming does not entail. We are talking about a potentially beneficial hybrid state - so I would suggest you speak for yourself when you say, 'Who cares...'
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Thank you for the help, Summerlander, I really appreciate it I tried WILD, but I ended up staying awake for a couple hours, I plan to try FILD tonight if I don't get into the phase the first time If Fild doesn't work, then I may try it tomorrow
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I usually go to bed between 9 and 12 sometimes I may wake up at 12:00, 2:00 and 4:00
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You aren't wrong Summerlander. It's just too much to digest for beginners and even me. We can't think of flowcharts when we lucid dream. I agree with you, but it may have been too advanced. Just saying.
There is no math or logic in dreams.
I like you, and I don't want to argue, but I must clarify:
Summerlander wrote: when you say, 'Who cares... I meant surrender to the dream lucid or not. Go with the flow, but it's not a flowchart!
I'll get back to the main point in question:
MyCrazyGrandpa wrote: I usually go to bed between 9 and 12 sometimes I may wake up at 12:00, 2:00 and 4:00
I sometimes wake up every few hours too all night on occasion. I know how that feels. I don't have insomnia, but you might want to check a doctor about that. On the other hand, waking up every few hours like that is because a sleep cycle lasts about 90 minutes, so it's no surprise you are waking up every 2 hours. It probably takes 30 minutes to sleep and this is all an estimate, but yea, check it out for yourself and look it up.
I just want to help people, but take it all with a grain of salt and I am no expert.
I have a problem, when 3:00 comes around I can't go back to sleep are there any methods that can be used by those who can't sleep?
Or are there any ways I can get sleep?
BTW thanks HAGART
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MyCrazyGrandpa wrote: Thank you for the help, Summerlander, I really appreciate it I tried WILD, but I ended up staying awake for a couple hours, I plan to try FILD tonight if I don't get into the phase the first time If Fild doesn't work, then I may try it tomorrow
Good luck, my friend. Try and explore all methods and see what works best for you! :-)
HAGART wrote: You aren't wrong Summerlander. It's just too much to digest for beginners and even me.
Speak for yourself only. There will be some beginners who will find diagrams easy to understand. And let's face it: What is so difficult about the one above which is from Michael Raduga's guidebook? Anyone can learn it off by heart. I have worked with many subjects for the OOBE Research Center and all of them were thankful for the instructions. Why? Because they were willing to do the work in order to yield interesting experiences.
HAGART wrote: We can't think of flowcharts when we lucid dream.
Why don't you speak for yourself? Try saying 'I' instead of 'we'.
HAGART wrote: There is no math or logic in dreams.
But it takes logic executing methods. Flowcharts are one format that conveys the method. Flowcharts and methods are not dreams. They only help you to get there (in this case).
HAGART wrote: I like you, and I don't want to argue, but I must clarify: Summerlander wrote:when you say, 'Who cares... I meant surrender to the dream lucid or not. Go with the flow, but it's not a flowchart!
I couldn't care less whether you like me or not. But if you knew me you'd be aware that I am against surrendering to the dream world. Surrendering to ordinary dreaming reduces your chances of becoming lucid. And surrendering when lucid means you won't go very far. In order to get what you want in lucid dreams you must take the steering wheel. A degree of control is necessary. So this is me saying you are wrong. :mrgreen:
I attempted FILD, but fell asleep, any tips on keeping conciousness?
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Keep bringing your mind back to the point of focus (fingers) every time it gets lost. Perhaps stay awake for half an hour, after having slept for 6, before attempting FILD. If you still fall asleep, experiment with prolonging the sleep inertia interlude. Bear in mind that falling asleep isn't necessarily a downfall. You can fall asleep with a strong intention to lucid dream if you are tired or, alternatively, make an OOBE-styled attempt at separating from the sleeping body 'stencil' at the next awakening. You don't have to faithfully follow methods; your goal is to lucid dream, that's all.
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MyCrazyGrandpa wrote: Thank you for the help, Summerlander, I really appreciate it I tried WILD, but I ended up staying awake for a couple hours, I plan to try FILD tonight if I don't get into the phase the first time If Fild doesn't work, then I may try it tomorrow
You really should trial LD techniques more then once before ruling certain ones out for you. I suggest a few weeks.
Seeing you have sleep issues (feeling ready to get up and start your day at 3am :shock: ), I personally think you shouldn't be trying WILD during your normal sleep times as it may cause even less sleep and when you wake up is a bad time too due to the way you feel when you do. ..........
HAGART. Summerlanders post looked like some kind of bad homework to me too :o . I laughed when I saw your post saying that.. No way can I get my head about it either (I think its a couple of years above my grade level :lol: ).
There is probably thou at least one person here with a brain like summerlanders who will get a lot out of that chart. (you need a similar mind)
"I meant surrender to the dream lucid or not. Go with the flow, but it's not a flowchart!" " :lol:
MyCrazyGrandpa wrote: I have a problem, when 3:00 comes around I can't go back to sleep are there any methods that can be used by those who can't sleep?
Or are there any ways I can get sleep?
It's a bad time for you to do this seeing you are wide awake and ready to go about your day. If you want to do WILD, you need to be trying it at times you can easily get to sleep (but as I said I personally think you should avoid WILD as it could really mess stuff up in your case and instead try non WILD techniques)
Summerlander wrote: Keep bringing your mind back to the point of focus (fingers) every time it gets lost. Perhaps stay awake for half an hour, after having slept for 6, before attempting FILD. If you still fall asleep, experiment with prolonging the sleep inertia interlude. Bear in mind that falling asleep isn't necessarily a downfall. You can fall asleep with a strong intention to lucid dream if you are tired or, alternatively, make an OOBE-styled attempt at separating from the sleeping body 'stencil' at the next awakening. You don't have to faithfully follow methods; your goal is to lucid dream, that's all.
You are dealing with a person though who gets very little sleep and by their posts doesn't even probably sleep for 6hrs... using their sleep time to do LD techniques will make their insomnia issue worst and is quite likely to give them worst sleep issues (to the point they may end up needing sleep drugs).
poster said "I usually go to bed between 9 and 12 sometimes I may wake up at 12:00, 2:00 and 4:00 and said he often wakes up at 3am wide awake and cant get back to sleep from there so the poster must be existing on only 3-6 hrs sleep a night now (maybe occasionally getting 7 hours).
WILD is a bad technique (health risk) if its going to interfere with the sleep of someone who already has bad sleep issues and I think we'll agree if that person isn't able to get back to sleep, they are unlikely to have a LD at that point. (most will not LD in a meditation state and will need to actually be asleep to have a LD).
WILD is my favourite technique but some people are best avoiding playing with it cause it may have negative consequences in their cases and with sleep issues, may be less likely to succeed to with certain methods or times to do WILD.
Last night I tried FILD but accidentally went into sleep paralysis (still haven't had lucid dream)
I have been experiencing sleep paralysis lately, sadly, the episodes only last seconds. Is there a way to prolong sleep paralysis?
I still wake up at the same times but when I take kava kava, it allows me to sleep for most of the night, with me only waking up once or twice, feeling tired
taniaaust1 wrote: Seeing you have sleep issues (feeling ready to get up and start your day at 3am :shock: ), I personally think you shouldn't be trying WILD during your normal sleep times as it may cause even less sleep and when you wake up is a bad time too due to the way you feel when you do.
Don't be daft. There is nothing stopping him from trying WILD — which he can reach via meditative steps. Even better for him is DEILD — the subject of the diagram which you and Hagart are too dense to absorb, but which was understood by MyCrazyGrandpa and my 11-year-old son. (And since you reckon it must be a couple of years above your grade level, you must have the mental capacity of a 9-year-old.) :mrgreen:
taniaaust1 wrote: HAGART. Summerlanders post looked like some kind of bad homework to me too :o . I laughed when I saw your post saying that.. No way can I get my head about it either (I think its a couple of years above my grade level :lol: ).
There is probably thou at least one person here with a brain like summerlanders who will get a lot out of that chart. (you need a similar mind)
A 'similar mind' which you clearly don't have. There are people who have the patience to study; and then there are those who are lazy and daunted by even the simplest explanatory structures. Like I said to Hagart, it's a guideline (not a dream) — and surrendering to dreams is the antithesis of the practice of lucid dreaming and not an approach that will behove oneironauts.
Your daunting 'flowchart', by the way, has helped many students at Raduga's School of Out-of-Body Travel and was prescribed/designed by him. Moreover, it's the perfect recipe for practitioners to take advantage of awakenings (check the chart again — if you can read, that is).
I have already highlighted the very simple shortcut (from awakening to the phase state; top left to bottom left on the diagram) which only the ignorant would overlook. (Wondering now if you are still laughing at Hagart's ignorant solecism — thus laughing with him — in the belief that it was actually a clever move.) :-D
taniaaust1 wrote: WILD is a bad technique (health risk) if its going to interfere with the sleep of someone who already has bad sleep issues and I think we'll agree if that person isn't able to get back to sleep, they are unlikely to have a LD at that point. (most will not LD in a meditation state and will need to actually be asleep to have a LD).
WILD is not a health risk so stop discouraging him. All he needs is to relax and begin a meditative exercise which will lead him to the state where he'll be 'awake' in his sleep — the only hybrid state where lucid dreaming happens. (So your statement that 'most will not LD in a meditation state and will need to actually be asleep to have a LD' is absolute excrement.) :mrgreen:
taniaaust1 wrote: You are dealing with a person though who gets very little sleep and by their posts doesn't even probably sleep for 6hrs... using their sleep time to do LD techniques will make their insomnia issue worst and is quite likely to give them worst sleep issues (to the point they may end up needing sleep drugs).
Don't be silly. He's already taking sedatives! :lol:
MyCrazyGrandpa wrote: Last night I tried FILD but accidentally went into sleep paralysis (still haven't had lucid dream)
I have been experiencing sleep paralysis lately, sadly, the episodes only last seconds. Is there a way to prolong sleep paralysis?
I still wake up at the same times but when I take kava kava, it allows me to sleep for most of the night, with me only waking up once or twice, feeling tired
Here's what you do. Once in sleep paralysis, let yourself go, relax, and will yourself to spin on an axis away from how and where you perceive your sleeping body to be. Remember: any strange sensations need to be amplified and then try to move against all resistance. (It might feel like you are really moving physically, but, continue to do so; get out of bed, stand up, test your surroundings.)
Forget about prolonging sleep paralysis. Don't waste time. Your goal is the world of lucid dreams, period. Also, stop taking Kava Kava as it is most likely causing you to have longer periods of dreamless sleep (Delta) which doesn't bode well for your chances of conscious dreaming during REM. Good luck! ;-)
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Summerlander wrote: WILD is not a health risk so stop discouraging him. All he needs is to relax and begin a meditative exercise which will lead him to the state where he'll be 'awake' in his sleep — the only hybrid state where lucid dreaming happens. (So your statement that 'most will not LD in a meditation state and will need to actually be asleep to have a LD' is absolute excrement.) :mrgreen:
There has been some research done in which it was found that peoples immune system weakens after only one week of sleep issues. Hence why I say anything which is affecting a persons sleep can be a health risk.
Don't be silly. He's already taking sedatives! :lol:
That's all the more reason then why he should take care he's not doing things which could make sleep issues worst. (a persons sleep can get worst even if they are taking sedatives).
Forget about prolonging sleep paralysis. Don't waste time. Your goal is the world of lucid dreams, period. Also, stop taking Kava Kava as it is most likely causing you to have longer periods of dreamless sleep (Delta) which doesn't bode well for your chances of conscious dreaming during REM. Good luck! ;-)
I agree with Summerlander on the above part quoted.
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There has been some research done in which it was found that peoples immune system weakens after only one week of sleep issues. Hence why I say anything which is affecting a persons sleep can be a health risk.
WILD does not affect sleep, it effects it. (The former comes with negative implications; the latter, not necessarily.) Also, WILD can be practised in conjunction with WBTB after a good few (reasonably 6) hours sleep.
That's all the more reason then why he should take care he's not doing things which could make sleep issues worst. (a persons sleep can get worst even if they are taking sedatives).
There is nothing stopping him from practising lucid dreaming in a healthy way. He just needs to make sure he gets enough sleep cycles. DILD is also an option. Once he gets a taste, the excitement may even psychologically mitigate his insomnia.
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I recently experienced an extremely weird dream.
So, I was in school, doing my work and the room went into space then came back, I went into the bathroom and came out and said "Its fine everyone its just a dream." Then shortly after, I woke up.
I knew this dream was not lucid, even though I said it was a dream, I did not truly realize that it was a dream. I think I just said that for some reason, maybe because I went to space and came back and I knew consciously that the classroom did not have any way to get to space.
Also, is it ok to swallow when trying to induce sleep paralysis? I have a lot of mucus in my sinuses, and its uncomfortable I breathe perfectly fine though.
And if its not okay, then any tips to ignore it or make it easier, because every time I think of lucid dream, I end up thinking of my throat which is quite funny and confusing