Remote Viewing Experiment
WHAT IS REMOTE VIEWING?
The Wikipedia definition is: Remote viewing (RV) is the practice of seeking impressions about a distant or unseen target using subjective means, in particular, extra-sensory perception (ESP) or "sensing with mind". Typically a remote viewer is expected to give information about an object, event, person or location that is hidden from physical view and separated at some distance.
You may wonder why, if there is any truth to this, doesn't the military use it for espionage? It turns out they did try it with the Stargate Project, but with no results. If you are a conspiracy theorist, like Mulder from the X-Files, you may think they are simply not divulging the whole truth. (So that neither proves nor disproves anything).
MY REMOTE VIEWING EXPERIMENT (I'm going to follow the scientific procedure. Knowing how subjective dreams and altered states of awareness can be, I'll try the best I can.)
Tools you'll need: A deck of cardsA place to sleep (near the cards preferably)The ability to lucid dream, and preferably those OBE-type ones where you become aware in your own bed and can see your own room. (It's the closest thing to Remote Viewing that I know of).Research Question: Is is possible to view a playing card that is unbeknownst to you when awake, but see it in an altered state of consciousness?
Hypothesis: One will see a random card of their subconscious's choosing.
Procedure: Shuffle the cards, and take the top one off and prop it up against something so it is visible, but not from your current angle. It is unknown to you. Go to sleep, have a vivid lucid dream that takes place in your own home (preferably one that feels like an OBE) and try and view that card.
Data: I can only share my experience in subjective story form, but it is the closest thing to scientific data any lucid dream/OBE experiment can provide. I will share my attempt and am eager for others to try as well.
SOME FURTHER THOUGHTS
Another variation I have tried is to shake a die in your hand and place it near your bed without looking at it. Then try and view the number. I did this last night, because I couldn't find a deck.
I have also decided to remove the Jokers in my deck (that I have set up permanently now). Knowing how my subconscious is already a prankster :P it may start presenting me with Jokers all the time. Plus now that my deck is Jokerless, if I ever do see one in my OBE-type lucid dream, I will know immediately that it is false and it's my subconscious yet again trying to fool me. (It's also important to make sure you have a full deck too). To keep jokers or not is purely up to you, but I personally got rid of them so I have a 1 in 52 chance of being right. (Way more than can be chalked up to coincidence if this works).
There are other side-benefits to this I have realized. When I place the object (dice, cards, anything) near my bed before going to sleep it plants a subconscious idea in my head and I tend to get a lucid dream as a result of that. It's like a reminder that I will be lucid when I sleep again, because it is on my mind when I sleep. Isn't that a variation of the MILD method? This can be mnemonic too
I've also had a lucid dream in a place nowhere like or near my actual house and tried to view the cards, but not only did it not work, if it did, it would not test remote viewing; That would be testing precognition. Another good experiment, but not this one. Remote viewing is not like guessing the number on the die or guessing a card. You are suppose to actually see it with your mind and not your eyes. Of course "seeing" actual objects in reality with your mind may not come visually and I am open minded to all the possibilities, having never experienced it myself. Perhaps the idea gets placed in your head, and it's more like precognition than I realize. But for now..... I am just sticking to the classic example of Remote Viewing.
Can I see ACTUAL objects in my room when I am supposedly "Out of Body"?
That's what this experiment is for, and another variation of this experiment can be made any other time, but I find it best to be as specific as possible and then try and change only one variable or restriction at a time.
Here is my 1st attempt: (I hope I get more....)
Thursday, September 26, 2013
I was in bed and I heard voices talking on a radio, and then thought, where is that coming from? I listened and then the sound became the ceiling fan clicking and whirling. I was just misinterpreting real world noises. I was in a hypnogogic/or/hynpnopompic/or false awakening state and hearing noises that the fan was providing. I was sleeping on my back with my right arm folded under the back of my head. I was looking at the wall beside me and felt a presence to my left. I thought it was probably me and I had separated from my body. (That might scare some, but I have gotten use to it). I used my right hand to feel around and felt the top hair of a head. The hair was short and I stroked it. I looked and saw a body there, but it had a face similar to my brother's, but the nose was pointed up with large nostrils showing.
I realized, I was probably already asleep so I tried to get up. (So obvious now, but at the time it can be hard to tell). It took all my effort and will power, and I felt extremely tired. I sat up and the body was no longer there in my way and then I stood up. I tried a reality check by moving an object, but it didn't work. I knew I was dreaming, but I also wasn't sure if I was sleep walking because it felt so real. I got up and left the room to see if there were any anomalies in the house. To my right was the bathroom and I looked in, but it all checked out. There was nothing out of the ordinary to tip me off. (In real life there IS no bathroom there, but I didn't realize that at the time). ( I get waking world amnesia <- good topic for another thread). I went back to my room to check on the card I had placed face up as part of my remote viewing experiment. I noticed a few cards where face up and fanned out, which is not how I left it when I slept, so I was sure now it was a dream.
Attempt #1: I did not Remote View. (I'll try again).
It's fun to try these experiments and we can always have our usual fun lucid dreams after it's tried. It doesn't take much time and is something to do if you ever have an OBE-type lucid dream that I described. Then you can go on and have fun afterward depending on your heart's desires. There might be other benefits too, like realizing you have a purpose in the dream and not just following along with the flow of the dream and being only half-aware-lucid. Or even helping you become lucid in the first place. Having a memory of waking life in the dream tends to make me even more lucid.
And even if nobody else tries this, I am going to post my experiences as they happen. (Hopefully)... And feel free to share any other anecdotes about possible Remote Viewings you have had in the past, or Out of Body Experiences, or whatever happens if you attempt this experiment. Or maybe my dream I shared relates to you, and you want to respond to that... Although this is the 'science channel forum' this is also a social network and the purpose of this is not only science, but to HAVE FUN TOO! :D
I am going to try this, though I am not able to guarantee I can succeed a "OBE". I can just about 90% guarantee a lucid dream every night with enough meditation and focus.
My last attempt was September 26, a week ago. Although I have been lucid at least once a night for the past 5 nights, these OBE-type, false awakening lucid dreams are still a little rare for me. And sometimes my lucid dream goals escapes me, and I don't remember.
So patience is important.
But it's a good habit to try anyway and may help out in other ways as I described. (It certainly doesn't hurt).
P.S. Goldkoron, I edited my posts. I just elaborated more, if you want to read. But I will stop after this message. No more edits!
Thanks for posting the results of your experiment. I'm also going to try it but my OBEs are few and far between so it may be a long time before I have some results to post.
I would recommend sticking with cards and not dice because you want something with longer odds to rule out coincidence with more confidence.
I got my deck ready. (Now it's official). But I too may not get another OBE-type lucid dream for a while, but I have noticed the practice of doing it before bed increased my chances of being lucid. I've been naturally getting them 1-3 times a months so it's not something that will happen right away, and I will be patient. This is an on-going experiment and we can check in from time to time over the next months.
I only mention dice as an alternative if someone doesn't have any cards. But it's only a 1 in 6 chance and if you try and use two, the chances of 7 are increased, so that is flawed. But I promised not to edit my post so I will leave it.
Let's please stick to playing cards. If you don't have any in your house then I must ask.... what planet are you from?, :lol: (just being sarcastic). We all have playing cards. It's the remote viewing in an OBE-type lucid dream that is tricky! I get them about 1-3 times a month so who knows when it will happen again.
If you try and fail and have an interesting story about it, write about it too. We learn from our mistakes.
this will be a good thread to follow, why dont you try in a lucid dream as well. Just conjure up a pack of cards and see what you come up with
I've been doing this and so far in ten sessions have not had one hit - not even one! And I get my wife to shuffle the deck so there is no chance of my subconscious 'wild-guessing' the cards from touch and memory.
There have been so many misses that a hit wouldn't necessarily be significant, and, let's face it, it's bound to happen at some point just like when a gambler wins a bet sometimes.
As Richard Feynman used to say to people: "You wouldn't believe what happened to me today?" and they would enquire with excitement and curiosity, "What?"
"Absolutely nothing!"
:-D
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Summerlander: Yea, the number of times being right have to be a lot more than just random chance.
**Peter: **I did check cards in a lucid dream which was nothing like my actual house. I flipped the top card over to guess what it was in the dream. The card was actually morphing into other cards as I was looking at it!
If I did get it right, then that would have been precognition (foresee what the next card is) and not remote viewing. So now I leave one propped up so it is visible, but not from my angle. I will try it too in any lucid dream and even ask someone if they know what the card is in a dream. Although not the classic case of remote viewing I was thinking of, technically it doesn't matter how you get the impression of the object. But it's important that it is visible and not the top card of a deck because that would be precognition. Another good test however.
I'll start doing both. Why not check the top card of the deck while I'm at it and test remote viewing AND precognition at the same time?
I'll probably get the same results as Summerlander, but it's worth a try. I wonder though, with an experiment like this, does my own opinion and prejudice about the outcome influence the result? When it comes to lucid dreams, if I believe I can't than of course I won't.....
I wonder about any bias that may occur and how much chance plays a part. Its also possible that if you use the same pack fora long time you may "learn" the pack by feel that you are not even aware of and then have your answer before you start.
All this aside it will sharpen up the lucid states and increase your skills so great from that point of view as well
The deck I am using now is battered with crease marks. I have already thought of that, and if I am to take this seriously I should get a fresh one.
LOL - awesome, we cover most thoughts and dont take ourselves to seriously.
Are you online, I have around 30 minutes if you want a skype call
Ok why not. I'll just go on Skype and wait then.
good, it has you offline just now, will wait
I tried this again. I was not thinking straight and relates to the other thread about how illogical we can be in a lucid dream. So technically this doesn't even count as an attempt, but it's interesting anyway.
It's funny how illogical I can be in a lucid dream even though at the time I swear I have all my wits about me. I should have taken a moment at the very beginning when I got up to compose myself and not rush into it so quickly. The card I have propped up in my room is on the back of my digital clock so I think that may have been the source of my confusion too.
Here's an excerpt from my own studies, and, needless to say, none of the cards match!! :mrgreen:
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Experiment 1A: 1st trial (11/06/12)
Stacey shuffled the cards before bedtime and saw that the top card was the Six of Clubs. She made sure I didn’t see the card. She placed the deck on the chest of drawers on top of my journal. I entered the phase with the test in mind as a plan of action. In the morning, Stacey couldn’t remember the card she had picked but luckily enough she had recorded it on her mobile phone.
Results:
Card match? No Suit match? Yes Number/character match? No
Brief description of phase experience:
In the morning, I entered the phase using the indirect method. I realised the indirect method attempt had worked when I saw that the chest of drawers was dark and bigger than it should be. As I deepened the phase, I noticed that the Sky box and my dream journal were missing, but, a funny-looking deck of cards, twice the size of the real one, was present. I picked up the top card and saw that it was the King of Clubs. Then, I flew out of the house in great exhilaration, all the while verbally repeating the card to myself to make sure I didn’t forget prior to a foul.
Experiment 1A: 2nd trial (21/06/12)
It is worth mentioning that a couple of days ago Stacey shuffled the cards and saw that the top one was the Nine of Spades (you will see why this is relevant in supporting the subconscious influence notion). By accident, I saw the card too when I moved them and Stacey had to reshuffle the deck. By the time she was done, I couldn’t even remember the card that I’d seen previously by accident. This time, the top card was the Four of Hearts and she placed the deck in the same place. I stayed away! I entered the phase using the deferred method. In the morning, upon returning from the phase, I checked the top card and also checked the second one (which was the King of Spades - and I thought of the card I had seen in the phase in my first trial).
Results:
Card match? No Suit match? No Number/character match? No
Brief description of phase experience:
*After using the toilet at 4am, I went back to bed and succeeded in entering the phase. I separated from my physical body stencil and rubbed my hands together to make the surroundings as vivid as possible. After achieving hyperrealism, I glided into the hallway and saw two mirrors instead of one. My reflection had a life of its own as it paced up and down from one mirror to the next. I remembered the experiment and immediately went back to my room to see that there was a large deck of cards on the chest of drawers. The top card was the Eight of Spades which quickly turned into a Nine. Curious, I also decided to check the second card which was the Ace of Clubs. I decided to explore the phase world while verbally repeating the cards I had seen aloud. I saw a brown rugged carpet covering the stairs and extending all the way to the front door downstairs. I slid down the carpet and pushed the front door open (not even bothering to close it behind me as I told myself that it was all a dream). I flew and landed on the roof of a bus stop to watch many people walk along a promenade. A malicious old man looked up at me and said he was going to get me. I ignored this and leapt over a wall to land on a long escalator that led to a huge shopping mall. I looked at the floor and found glass bottles which I then proceeded to smash and admired the realistic effect. I fouled and woke up refreshed. *
Experiment 1A: 3rd trial (06/07/12)
Stacey shuffled the cards and looked at the top one. She saw that it was the Two of Hearts. I entered the phase using the indirect method. It is worth mentioning that, before I gave the cards to my wife for shuffling, I looked at the order in which they were in and saw that the Nine of Spades was next to the Eight of the same suit. This observation made me wonder if it was a coincidence that I’d seen the same cards in the second trial or if the subconscious mind is at play. But me and my wife only remember having seen the nine of spades before the cards had to be reshuffled. Unless precognition is also at play if we imagine a scenario in which I tapped into future visual information via the phase state. Although cards have not matched so far in the results, these observations where what is seen in the phase somehow appears to relate to what has already been acknowledged and what is yet to be acknowledged in the real world is proving intriguing.
Results:
Card match? No Suit match? No Number/character match? No
Brief description of phase experience:
I woke and suddenly gained vision as though my eyes were semi-open. I noticed that a man’s head hung from the ceiling instead of a light. Also, the window was larger and the blind was up. Outside, the scenery completely defied the familiarity of what would have been found in the real world when I pressed my head against the window pane. I remembered the experiment and decided to try a different approach. I asked the realistic phase replica of Stacey what the card was. Sitting up in bed and partially hiding behind covers, she mumbled an answer. “Come again?”, I said whilst approaching her. She mumbled again. “The Four of Spades?”, I enquired. “Yes”, she said nodding excitedly and somewhat looking like she was about to prank me. I decided to check the top card of a deck nearby anyway. It was the Five of Clubs. I looked back at Stacey and she smirked. I deliberately ended the experience and wrote it down in my dream journal.
Experiment 1A: 4th trial (25/10/12)
This time the top card was the Ace of Clubs. As usual, Stacey was the only person who had seen it prior to my related telepathy-testing phase experience. I also entered the phase after lying down on the living room sofa - which is unusual for me. Stacey napped nearby but she did not enter the phase. She was merely dreaming at the time. I used the deferred indirect method to reach the state with the plan to carry out the experiment firmly in mind.
Results:
Card match? No Suit match? Yes Number/character match? No
Brief description of phase experience:
After having a dream about parcels being delivered to my house, I caught an awakening without physical movement and was able to enter the phase (for details see “Reality Makers” in my compendium of phase experiences). The first and the second cards were picked from the deck. Both showed the same thing. Initially, what was displayed was an array of possibilities in black and white. Subsequently, the more I looked at them, the more a particular result sufficed. Finally, the Seven of Clubs was consistent.
Experiment 1A: 5th trial (06/05/13)
The top card had been picked by Stacey a couple of months prior to this experience. She had forgotten that it was the Four of Hearts. I become conscious while dreaming of being in a tunnel about to be inundated by clear water (dream theme: deluge). Subsequently, I perceived myself to be lying in bed and in sleep paralysis. I amplified a cacophony of sounds in my head and separated from my body, subsequently succeeding in doing a card trial. It is worth mentioning that, after my phase experience and prior to checking the top card in the real world, I had a dream where two couples made love in separate rooms - an intriguing juicy detail that people can associate with the real top card (Four of Hearts) and deem the experience as precognitive or telepathic. The association, however, comes after the (confirmed) fact, coincidence cannot be ruled out, and, the seemingly psychic experience was a product of an ordinary dream state - not the phase state.
Results:
Card match? No Suit match? No Number/character match? No
Brief description of phase experience:
After having separated from the body I was blind and started deepening the phase. I dimly made out the lucent silhouette of a window in my visually tenebrous condition. I jumped out of it, confident of being in the phase and not the real world, and started flying. I hovered, half-blindly, above roofs and palpated my legs and feet in order to bring about more depth. Deepening in midair caused me to somersault uncontrollably so I decided to land somewhere. I landed in front of my house (or something like it) and vision blossomed out into full clarity. That’s when I remembered to do a card trial. I rushed towards my house, pushed the front door open, and dashed up the stairs into my bedroom (I don’t know why I didn’t just translocate there or manifest a card in my hands). I spotted a deck of cards on a bedside cabinet and picked up the top one. It turned out to be a peculiar depiction of the Jack of Spades which quickly turned into a picture of Mauricio de Sousa’s Chuck Billy, a much loved cartoon character during my childhood. I willingly fouled and jotted down the experience before going back to sleep.
Experiment 1A: 6th trial (16/08/13)
Stacey shuffled and checked the top card. It was the Six of Clubs. I had a dream where I was pretending to be Superman for a bunch of children in a school playground. I remember putting on a Superman costume and attempting to fly before the onset of dream consciousness. Eventually I would perform the test in the phase.
Results:
Card match? No Suit match? No Number/character match? No
Brief description of phase experience:
Upon dream consciousness, I noticed I was flying over an Egyptian landscape. There were Sphinx-like structures and pyramids adorning a sandy terrain. After landing somewhere I punched a brick wall and my fist hurt. I punched it again and demolished it as though I had suddenly acquired super strength. Then, I found myself in a dark room and a scary corpse-like woman emerged from the shadows. She screeched and moved towards me. I experienced fear despite knowing that I was in the phase. Experiences like this were enough to make the Benandanti believe they were travelling out of their bodies in spirit form to fight against evil witches thought to be responsible for bad crops. In the Late Middle Ages, and at the dawn of the Scientific Revolution, such belief is venial given the lack of agricultural knowledge. A modern mind like mine, as scientific and as sceptical as it can afford to be, is not immune to doubt in the presence of impressive figures in the phase state. What if they are real? I managed to reach equanimity and recalled my plan for a card trial before translocating to my bedroom. An alter ego was kneeling on my bed and checking a deck of cards like an impostor who beat me to the punch. I asked this pseudo-Arlindo to show me the top card and he obliged. The card was the Queen of Hearts. A subsequent false awakening made me believe that the card matched. Then I woke up for real and it didn’t.
Phase State: Hybrid brain state compounding wakefulness and dreaming, i.e. lucid dreaming / out-of-body experiences / astral projection
That painting is awesome. Did you do it?
Thanks. Yeah. It's based on one of my experiences. I tried to capture the hyperrealism of my dream hands. The sharpness of the environment was incredible, the colours were great. The card fluctuated with many symbols until the Seven of Clubs was coherent (just about). 8-)
I read Summerlander's experiences and results. So far for me, the cards are hard to read too, and are nothing like the actual one.
In one of your dreams, you were breaking glass to admire the realism of it. I do that too! And sometimes I throw plates at the wall just to hear and watch them smash. It's childish perhaps, but fun because it is very real and there are no consequences. I'm always amazed by the sound of it.
Summerlander wrote: I fouled and woke up refreshed
You also use the word 'foul' to mean ending the dream. Or is there more to it? I never heard that term before.
I like your drawing too. I was examining it and there is a lot of detail. The design around the door frame and the many swirls go unnoticed at first. Good Job! I can't help, but feel there is meaning in dreams and the card may reveal something. I examined the card itself and I think I cracked the code! It's a secret recipe for spicy burritos! :o
HAGART wrote: I read Summerlander's experiences and results. So far for me, the cards are hard to read too, and are nothing like the actual one.
I'm glad I'm not the only one! :D
HAGART wrote: In one of your dreams, you were breaking glass to admire the realism of it. I do that too! And sometimes I throw plates at the wall just to hear and watch them smash. It's childish perhaps, but fun because it is very real and there are no consequences. I'm always amazed by the sound of it.
I completely understand where you are coming from. I have smashed plates against walls too! LOL! It's amazing. It may seem trivial but it's fun. These experiences are often realistic. I think only a few times there was no sound or it seemed a bit delayed, but, the majority of times, everything went as though it happened in the real world. Awesome! 8-)
HAGART wrote: You also use the word 'foul' to mean ending the dream. Or is there more to it? I never heard that term before.
A foul is an undesired exit from a lucid dream (aka phase state). I adopted this terminology from Michael Raduga's School of Out-of-Body Travel. When I record my experiences I tend to just say "the phase" or "phase state" as an umbrella term (instead of, "I had an OOBE, WILD, DILD etc.)
I try to follow what the EDMAR acronym, which I came up with, stands for: 1-Enter; 2-Deepen; 3-Manage/maintain; 4-Action (plan); 5-Re-enter the phase (in case of a foul)
One must aim to stay in the state for as long as possible and a foul does not mean it's the end. Try to re-enter the lucid dream world until you exhaust this option. The minute you start feeling the bed beneath you, "separate" immediately! Don't even think. Just get up! You can always check afterwards whether you are standing in the real world or the phase.
HAGART wrote: I like your drawing too. I was examining it and there is a lot of detail. The design around the door frame and the many swirls go unnoticed at first. Good Job! I can't help, but feel there is meaning in dreams and the card may reveal something. I examined the card itself and I think I cracked the code! It's a secret recipe for spicy burritos! :o
:mrgreen:
Thanks for cracking that! It makes sense now. I think it was a warning to go easy on spicy food. I should have taken heed of that. Now I have haemorrhoids. :twisted:
In that case, I have 'fouled' too and know what it's like to 're-enter'. Why wake up, when you still have time to sleep and will inevitably fall back asleep again? And the 're-enter' can often become false awakenings and it's best to stand up and then question your surroundings. There is nothing to lose and it happens all too often for me so I should get in the habit of that.
Even if I am non-lucid, I tend to wake up every hour during the (roughly 3 hour) REM phase, and it's something I am use to and do it naturally anyway. But when you think about it, why can't I stay in a lucid dream for 3 hours? There is really nothing stopping me, but it still happens. I get fouled all the time after about 5-15 minutes. But when I do, I try to remain calm and relaxed and think of where I just was and sometimes I can re-enter where I left off.
Deepen and Manage are two things I forget to do, and need to work on that.
Yeah, I relate to the false awakenings, too. It is a period of doubt, even though departed from the ordinary dream state, but, it does provide enough mental sharpness to question your reality and the opportunity to turn it into a lucid dream.
Sometimes I forget to deepen too. But ideally, as soon as I enter the lucid dream world, I spend about ten seconds deepening before going about my plan of action. Then I maintain as needed, meaning that I use sensory-amplification techniques when I feel that the environment is fading.
In Raduga's school we learn that the phase state is not stable. It fluctuates. Because it is a hybrid state, you can lose it in two ways: you either wake up (foul); or the experience turns into an ordinary dream.
As lucid dreamers we aim to avoid both. Movement, touching, and peering at dream objects can prevent us from fouling (though the fear of fouling can lead to a false awakening in itself). Reminders that one is dreaming and avoiding too much interaction with dream plots can help us to stay focused and avoid the other problem, which is, slipping into ordinary dream mode (we call this "falling asleep in the phase").
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I relate to everything you say.
You can lose your lucidity in a dream, not because of waking up, but because you get mesmerized, and side-tracked by something else. It is so easy, because we teeter on the edge of rational thought and dream-nonsense. By 'rational thought' I mean, consciously interpreting what you experience, see, taste, hear, feel etc., and by 'dream-nonsense', I mean the uncontrollable subconscious imagination that keeps creating new things, objects and environments and characters. It's a 'seesaw' balance of interpreting your imagination. A Tug 'O War between the conscious and subconscious. Too far on one side, you wake up; Too far on the other, you get lost in a dream again. In the middle... that's the 'phase' as you call it.
Even a simple card, in the extreme case, can become EVERY NUMBER and EVERY SUIT imaginable all at once and it's impossible to interpret with that 'Tug 'O War' going on. (It's hard to describe what that feels like, but I've felt this in my first attempt, and when I try to read signs and other texts in lucid dreams too, so I know others know the feeling). Also, the longer you look at something in a lucid dream, the more you'll see. It just changes sometimes and especially when you look away and then back again at it. I even tried blinking in a lucid dream and the object (a clock) changed as fast as I blinked. Not only the time, but it became every clock I've ever known. A digital-clock-radio, a grandfather clock, even that one of the black and white cat with the eyes that tick-tock side to side from pop-culture... if you know the one.
Some may think this is going off topic, on a tangent, but it's my thread and I say, let the conversation go where it may. We can be surprised by what we learn, ignoring what the origin was, and just talk freely.
We can get back to cards later, and I will, if I ever get an interesting lucid dream about it. And I look forward to hearing from anyone else who attempts this, fail or foul.
I don't think you are going off-topic at all. I think what you said is very relevant and on the money when it comes to cards and the behaviour of dream objects in general. I like the "seesaw" analogy, too.
And you are right, the optimal phase state is in the "middle." Ideally, you will feel awake inside a vivid dream world (hyper-realistic even) and you will know that you are dreaming. That is what we call a "deep phase."
However, if the environment is faint or vague, it needs deepening. And if your judgement isn't all there despite the knowledge that one is dreaming, you need more focus. This is what we call a "shallow phase" which can happen to any of us. We can go from deep to shallow and vice versa! LOL!
It's no different to Rebecca's degrees of lucidity and vividness or intensity. Just different terminology I guess.
Attempt #2
I became lucid in a dream and it 'fouled' against my will. I remained calm and still. Although I was laying on my back in darkness I could feel internally in my head that I was still in a different brain wave than awake. It's hard to describe, but I could tell. I heard some voices whispering from another room, talking to each other as though some others in my house had gotten up already. I also knew there was a big chance it was just an hallucination. I remained still, waiting to see if I would get the symptoms of a 'body exit', but there was nothing. Then I started to feel a weight on my shins and I thought it might turn into a sleep paralysis episode, so I quickly opened my eyes and got up. I had nothing to lose except accidental awakening.
The fact that I had trouble getting up, and my sense of balance was off, was another give away that I was still dreaming. I checked the time on the clock and it was 12:45 am. Way too early for others to get up, so again I knew. I had moved the placement of the card before bed last night, so I wouldn't see it accidentally whenever I got up in the morning or night to use the bathroom. It was in the corner of my room now, and I remembered that, so I was quite aware with my memories in tact. I checked the card.
It wasn't a card at all, but a thin strip of paper with a big, red number 3: 3I looked at the paper more and it was larger now with more drawings on it. I saw two drawings of cards, both small, about the size of my thumb. They were 10's, but the suit was hard to tell. It was a lot like the drawing of "Seven of Clubs". There were many clubs and spades all over the two drawings and different sizes. (They were all black however).
When I woke up, I went with my first vision and thought it must be a red 3. But if it's a black 10 that would be noteworthy too. I was wrong. It was the 7 of hearts.
My experience also goes to show that there is no difference between an 'Out of Body Experience' and a False Awakening. (Or in my case a Lucid-False-Awakening which is an oxymoron, but I don't know what else to call it.)
I think others that swear to experience true OBE's are perhaps just experiencing a higher detailed version of their last known surroundings. And it feels more mystical because of the muscle atonia, sleep paralysis, which I believe causes the 'vibrations', sinking, floating and buzzing sounds. I don't get those ALL the time and something is always amiss when I get up and look around. If someone had a photographic memory their experiences may be different than mine and will see every known detail, true to life.
But the dream that ensued was exactly the same as what feels like the start of what others describe as OBE.
The OBE - LD goes round and round and I see no difference and can induce either state as an entry to a dream. In an OBE (had one last night) I was at the ceiling touching and playing as I was looking for feedback due to a post on here and the scene lightened up - not a true likeness as it was early hours and dark. I understand the almost desperate need to want an OBE to be OB but the devil is in the details.
Peter wrote: The OBE - LD goes round and round and I see no difference and can induce either state as an entry to a dream. In an OBE (had one last night) I was at the ceiling touching and playing as I was looking for feedback due to a post on here and the scene lightened up - not a true likeness as it was early hours and dark. I understand the almost desperate need to want an OBE to be OB but the devil is in the details.
Yes, I agree. I'm finding the experience of OB is pretty much inseparable from LD, at least in the best LDs which are pretty much everyone lately. Been having a hard time being able to deal with concept of "dual reality", IE. dream and waking life as they are indistinguishable. The dreams are getting more real in terms of sensory inputs, taste has gotten much more intense and real in recent dreams.
Initially, I thought it was just a problem of adding another reality to my map. But I'm realizing that it's really the OB experience which is is difficult for me, feeling like there are 2 of me, split apart in two separate realities. Of course I can always tell myself "none of this really exists" and of course it will all go away, but that defeats the purpose. Any thoughts like that ruins the quality of the dream.
The experience is becoming more pronounced, more distinct, this experience of being separated. Difficult for me to deal with. I often decide to come back from the dream after only a few minutes of it because I feel so disoriented. It seems to be more of a problem in DILDs than in WILDs. With WILD I feel like there's more time to get acclimated so to say. In DILD, it's like I wake up completely, only we're obviously not in Kansas any more. I'm sure I'll get more used to it with time.
the OB experience which is is difficult for me, feeling like there are 2 of me, split apart in two separate realities
I tend to think that on one level there is only one of us/me and its the means of exploring the world that is different so in a dream I use my energy body but also only when I want to as there have been plenty of explorations that require no body but there is an awareness that has the essence of me having the experience. In other ways with the direct contact with the dreamspace and some of the event that occur at times I also feel that the me i think of in daily life is not the only part with control and may not even be the most important part or more correctly the part in full control.
As for dream length its only fear so kick that away and get on with it, last night I had dream time of around 50 minutes plus and pulled myself back because of nothing else I wanted to do. I was happy to come back to wakefulness and enjoy the feelings of the dream and they are still with me hours later.
The dreamscape is as real in memory, retained experience to support memory and at the time as full and complete as daily life + more at times
Peter wrote:
the OB experience which is is difficult for me, feeling like there are 2 of me, split apart in two separate realities
I tend to think that on one level there is only one of us/me and its the means of exploring the world that is different so in a dream I use my energy body but also only when I want to as there have been plenty of explorations that require no body but there is an awareness that has the essence of me having the experience.
I have all the experiences that a body has, but never see one. I can look at my hands, but they are not there otherwise. I can stamp my feet on the ground and experience all of the sensations, yet I never see any feet. I know the mind/body separation is just a perception, yet it has the weight of real experience behind it. In dreams, experience is reality.
Peter wrote: As for dream length its only fear so kick that away and get on with it, last night I had dream time of around 50 minutes plus and pulled myself back because of nothing else I wanted to do. I was happy to come back to wakefulness and enjoy the feelings of the dream and they are still with me hours later.
I'm working on dealing with that fear, getting used to the reality frame of lucid dreams, but it really is trippy. I really never expected that level of realness and the OBE experience is otherworldly. I also get the feeling that not everyone has the same level of intensity in their dreams.
Peter wrote: The dreamscape is as real in memory, retained experience to support memory and at the time as full and complete as daily life + more at times
Yes, that's true in what I would call the "full experience". It's really quite a thing to say, that a dream could have that same level of experience as waking life, isn't it? But of course we know it's true. It really leaves me shaking my head sometimes for the whole next day.
I know the mind/body separation is just a perception
I dont think it is just a perception but think that we have a meat body or physical body and we have a dream body that we can conjure up as a look alike or not depending on experience or need or belief (you can be human in most ways in appearance, you can be an animal or you can be body less) and in all instances have awareness so I think the awareness is the defining point and that is what moves around and uses either the physical of energetic body for the mode of transport and so each is real and neither is a perception but a mode of transport and a way to collect experience.
It is this awareness that is "me" but it is most likely only one part of many awareness's that exist as me and it is those others that I am seeking, without purpose at this stage just looking and pushing boundaries to see what I can find
I have all the experiences that a body has, but never see one
I see bits, hands that look real at times and look odd at others. In placing my hands on a ceiling this morning I had a normal hand shape but it was shimmering and when putting my hand in and out of the hard ceiling I had very real feelings that were painful but familiar to me so just played around for a while putting it in and out of the hard panels
We all know the classic five senses, but there are others. We also have a sense of proprioception, and a sense of balance (what is up and what is down?). Or even if you take a deep breath you can feel it in your chest without looking, or hearing it. (And it's not the same as tactile touch). So there are more than just 5 and some senses are internal and bodily. (Sense of hunger too!)
We have a sense of body when awake, but we are so accustomed to it, we don't even give it a second thought. We are so use to this human body we don't even realize it half the time.
In a dream state, our senses go a little haywire compared to our waking state. We all know that when we think of the classic 5 senses, but what about those other bodily senses? They go haywire too. Those senses of the body are an illusion in our minds too, but make life and dreams seem more 'real'.
In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too, I am sure. (I've never done that and it seems advanced, but yet, 'advanced' is just a mental block on my part. I should consider everything easy and I will have more success).
One last thing: When I walk down a street in a lucid dream, I hardly ever see my body below me peripherally as I walk. I don't see my torso or arms swinging the way I do in waking life. Then again, in waking life, although I see it peripherally, I tend to ignore it. Perhaps that is why I don't see it in dreams. Whatever I notice when awake all day will come easily when I am in a dream. So that also means that mentally sensing your body in bed before you sleep should induce more of a sense of body in the dream. That may seem obvious, and I think some other techniques like SSILD mention that. (It's one of the senses along with hearing what's around you and seeing whatever may be there despite eyes closed). Sometimes it takes a while to click for me, but I think it just did. I'll test that too and other techniques to 'solidify the realism' of the dream too, in the mean time, as I continue checking cards.
Having a strong sense of body in a lucid dream, although it may just be an illusion of the mind, makes them so much more fun and realistic of an adventure. Otherwise, you are in the other extreme and in 'the void' as Peter calls it, but that is also fun once you get over the fact that you don't need a sense of body in reference to anything else. I'm mostly in the middle of the extremes, and I'm just a floating POV (point of view) that can move freely. All 3 are important to understand though. I like having a 'dream body' and should work on that more, and even become acquainted more with 'the void' too and get to know that too.
In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too
The simplest way to have fun is to get lucid and when standing somewhere just project out an arm or hand to some object a long way off and it stretches and also has all the feelings to be able to make it real. Do this when you are OBE to put that experience in perspective.
I think some other techniques like SSILD mention that
This is a very good technique if you dont try to use it for a WILD. It will work nicely for WILD and most times will project you out but if you use it as a relaxation technique you will get a good sense of body and a deep relaxing entry to sleep. I think it causes lucid awareness or DILD by the fact that if you are performing a task in a dream then the logical mind links the body action to the pre-sleep exercises. It is very effective and a no stress one as you are not trying for WILD and the worst that will happen is a great nights sleep.
Peter wrote: The simplest way to have fun is to get lucid and when standing somewhere just project out an arm or hand to some object a long way off and it stretches and also has all the feelings to be able to make it real. Do this when you are OBE to put that experience in perspective.
I've actually tried that a few times with no success. Even if I don't see my arms stretch I still think I should be able to feel something far away, because distance in a lucid dream is an optical illusion. If I wanted to, I could 'zoom in' and 'teleport' there and then touch it, but stretching my arms and feeling tactile sensations from a distance are hard for me. It's hard to wrap my head around it which is probably why.
One time, I was trying a touch a tree in the distance and gave up and 'karate-chopped' the air in front of me, and it fell over even though it was about 50 feet away. So I know it's possible to manipulate far off objects, so feeling them must be possible too. I gotta start believing I can.
There was another relaxation technique, focusing purely on the body, I read about in one of Rebbecca's articles. It was about focusing on different points on your body and making each part relax. Even if it doesn't induce a lucid dream from a WILD or DILD, I'm sure it has other benefits and can at the very least lead to a good nights sleep. There is never any harm in attempting these.
Its so much in the mind in a lot of ways but all doable if you want to, some of it is ok for a the wonder of it but then there is no need apart from common ground and shared experience but that is a great thing in the realm we are talking about.
The feelings I like the most are the ones that have no relationship to daily life and the first one is putting my hands into and then going through what would be solid matter in waking life. I was fascinated last night just doing this repeatedly and trying to understand why there was any feeling at all then why the sensation was bordering on pain and then redefining pain as the concept in not really valid in the dreamworld.
Peter wrote: The feelings I like the most are the ones that have no relationship to daily life and the first one is putting my hands into and then going through what would be solid matter in waking life. I was fascinated last night just doing this repeatedly and trying to understand why there was any feeling at all then why the sensation was bordering on pain and then redefining pain as the concept in not really valid in the dreamworld.
The feeling I had pushing through the ceiling was slightly painful too, almost felt like it was abrasive fibers of some kind pushing against each other, passing through each other and I also felt a sort of friction of things moving past/through each other.
Oh, and I was inspired by your long lucid dream and comments to kick the fear out of the way. I made a decision last night that I was going to have a long lucid dream and sure enough it happened. I think it was around 20 minutes and one of the longest yet for me. Really fantastic, almost everyone in the dream knew about lucid dreaming and was into it. I'll post about it in the "share your lucid dreams" section.
HAGART wrote: We all know the classic five senses, but there are others. We also have a sense of proprioception, and a sense of balance (what is up and what is down?). Or even if you take a deep breath you can feel it in your chest without looking, or hearing it. (And it's not the same as tactile touch). So there are more than just 5 and some senses are internal and bodily. (Sense of hunger too!)
We have a sense of body when awake, but we are so accustomed to it, we don't even give it a second thought. We are so use to this human body we don't even realize it half the time.
In a dream state, our senses go a little haywire compared to our waking state. We all know that when we think of the classic 5 senses, but what about those other bodily senses? They go haywire too. Those senses of the body are an illusion in our minds too, but make life and dreams seem more 'real'.
In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too, I am sure. (I've never done that and it seems advanced, but yet, 'advanced' is just a mental block on my part. I should consider everything easy and I will have more success).
Yes, everything is easy, if an intent is created.
I'm thinking that we have a body and all the senses, but we really bypass the mechanics of all of it and go straight to the experience level. That's how it seems to work for me. For example in waking life I decide to pick up an object to feel it. Instruction: Pick up object A and feel it. I make the decision which causes my muscles to move and pick up the object, then I feel it and a "tactile image" (for lack of a better term) appears in my brain. In a dream, I make a decision to pick up an object and feel it, but it's more like Instruction: Take in touch data for object A. Then just the pure sensory data appears and the experience occurs, but none of the mechanics.
As you were saying about how most of time our bodies are there but we don't give it a second thought. So in waking life, we are aware of them and occasionally look at them or feel something in our bodies, but usually it's just awareness. But that's the only part we seem to have in dreams is the awareness of a body, of course we can "make" one if we want, but most of time we are just after the experience and skip the mechanics. It's really much more efficient.
After having many completely real and vivid LDs, the more I think about it, the more I think the term "dream" is really such an understatement. They are really more like "purely manifested realities" because you can actually have all of experiences of waking life inside of these places which are experienced as physical reality, but are purely a creation. It's so much more than just a "dream".
HAGART wrote: We all know the classic five senses, but there are others. We also have a sense of proprioception, and a sense of balance (what is up and what is down?). Or even if you take a deep breath you can feel it in your chest without looking, or hearing it. (And it's not the same as tactile touch). So there are more than just 5 and some senses are internal and bodily. (Sense of hunger too!)
We have a sense of body when awake, but we are so accustomed to it, we don't even give it a second thought. We are so use to this human body we don't even realize it half the time.
In a dream state, our senses go a little haywire compared to our waking state. We all know that when we think of the classic 5 senses, but what about those other bodily senses? They go haywire too. Those senses of the body are an illusion in our minds too, but make life and dreams seem more 'real'.
In dreams, we don't need a body, and can even toy with it, and manipulate it too, I am sure. (I've never done that and it seems advanced, but yet, 'advanced' is just a mental block on my part. I should consider everything easy and I will have more success).
One last thing: When I walk down a street in a lucid dream, I hardly ever see my body below me peripherally as I walk. I don't see my torso or arms swinging the way I do in waking life. Then again, in waking life, although I see it peripherally, I tend to ignore it. Perhaps that is why I don't see it in dreams. Whatever I notice when awake all day will come easily when I am in a dream. So that also means that mentally sensing your body in bed before you sleep should induce more of a sense of body in the dream. That may seem obvious, and I think some other techniques like SSILD mention that. (It's one of the senses along with hearing what's around you and seeing whatever may be there despite eyes closed). Sometimes it takes a while to click for me, but I think it just did. I'll test that too and other techniques to 'solidify the realism' of the dream too, in the mean time, as I continue checking cards.
Having a strong sense of body in a lucid dream, although it may just be an illusion of the mind, makes them so much more fun and realistic of an adventure. Otherwise, you are in the other extreme and in 'the void' as Peter calls it, but that is also fun once you get over the fact that you don't need a sense of body in reference to anything else. I'm mostly in the middle of the extremes, and I'm just a floating POV (point of view) that can move freely. All 3 are important to understand though. I like having a 'dream body' and should work on that more, and even become acquainted more with 'the void' too and get to know that too.
Has anyone seen the crazy science show with Morgan Freeman? Seems like it'd be a popular show with our crowd. But more importantly! One of the episodes of this show(I believe it's called through the wormhole?) the topic is all about our senses, and more importantly the possible existence of a 6th sense! Yes we have the common 5 senses, but what about the sixth sense? I believe we all have a 6th sense, we just aren't to accustomed to using it. You stop using one sense, and the others heighten right?
I'm mostly rambleing off topic though, your post just really struck me because I believe the sixth sense is a very real sense just as touch, or taste, and so on.
So it seems we have many senses! And if you'd like to hear the intro where Morgan Freeman introduces the topic of a sixth sense, it's at the beginning of this song!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vwyxQHG9imk
Right after the Morgan freeman sample, the song starts with a line saying "Dreaming of things two eyes could never see"
In which he is referring to using the "third eye" chakra to heighten his sixth sense to the point where his dreams become lucid.
Now did you ever think youd hear good rap about lucid dreaming?;) I sure didnt!
[ Post made via iPhone ] Image
I know through the wormhole and really like that show. But I got my ideas about the senses from a link someone (deschainXIX) provided in "is a virtual dream machine possible" http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/07/humans-have-a-lot-more-than-five-senses/
So the "6th" sense you describe might have to be renamed to the 11th or 15th after taking into account all the other known ones.
So come to think of it, Lucidinthe Sky, perhaps our brains are already a virtual dream machine. Some dreams are more like virtual reality than mere dreams. Most lucid dreams I have are what I call, unstable. Things can change a lot and people morph and new things sprout into existence. (Depends on how busy my subconscious mind is I guess). Those are very much like a dream experience, but being conscious during it.
But I've had a few that are like being alive in a different world without any plot. I can walk around and interact with it, and feel like I am fully there with a body. (Some even go a little to long for my comfort and I wonder if I still have a body to go back to. But that's only after 15-30 minutes because I am not use to it right now). I find it harder to do things that go against my known laws of physics. I can't fly, or move objects very easily. (Still can but it's my own mental block, disbelieving). When I climb a tree or wall I feel my muscles moving just like real life and need to pull myself up by my arms and then use my legs to get a foot hold. I have even felt muscle fatigue after doing something strenuous. I can pick an object up and bob my hand up and down and feel the weight of the object. Those are much different than other lucid dreams I get, and not as common for me.
The heavier an object is in them the harder time I have telekinetically moving it. My own self doubt stops me. Like Luke Skywalker trying to lift the X-wing fighter. He thinks it's too big and heavy and says he'll give it a try. "Try not," Yoda says, "Do... or do not. There is no try." Yoda knows it's all in our heads and does it easily. Wise words we can all remember when trying to use 'The Force' in lucid dreams. (Or anything else for that matter in dreams and in life....)
h wow, I cant believe I missed this thread (I think I will be checking out dream science forum in future, this is the first time I think Ive been here). Good thread HAGART, Ive just started reading it. ..................
For anyone doing the card experiment, I suggest do it only once. If you are having OBEs in our normal earth astral real time, you should be able to see that card first go!! Also I think that is more scientific as after all the more times you do this, the more likely you will get it right as you increase the chance you will. Be determined to get it right first and only go.
I also are concerned that you may unintentionally screw up your results by doing this over and over. why? cause the astral plane can at times be not quite in synch (impressions from the past or future may be left). If you've done this experiment over and over.. you may end up instead seeing a card of a future time experiment you did and then go "oh I got this wrong and couldnt have been astral). Hence I say again.. only do this with it in that place once only.
I suggest not to go guessing a roll on a dice as there is too high a chance of a right guess so if you got it right it wouldnt really prove anything (even with doing this once with cards if you got it right, it could just be lucky with a LD as there still is a chance it was.. unless you know its an OBE). I suggest in this cause to do it again and see if you can get it correct again (but make sure you put the card in a different place to not create astral confusion).
............
HAGART. I thought it was funny you took out your jokers.
HAGART wrote: Remote viewing is not like guessing the number on the die or guessing a card. You are suppose to actually see it with your mind and not your eyes. Of course "seeing" actual objects in reality with your mind may not come visually and I am open minded to all the possibilities, having never experienced it myself. Perhaps the idea gets placed in your head, and it's more like precognition than I realize. But for now..... I am just sticking to the classic example of Remote Viewing.
For many remote viewers it is like seeing out of their eyes (thou with the ones from the stargate program etc, they see a lot of symbolism for things.. if you see their diagrams they did, you will see this). But for those more natural in these skills it can be like they themselves are there (I was trained in another form of it in which it was called bilocation (using a merkabah field).. but its actually a different form of RV but with more realism coming into what one sees (the gov people studied some the technique which was taught to me.. this was after their stargate program supposely had been shut down!!. They turned out at my teachers lecture in Australia.. basically gate crashed it..over in Sydney and spent their time standing at the back of the room).
I wasnt much good at this! thou did have a few great blind hits. I used the tenthousandroad RV site to get blind coordinates (? I think I have the name right) a few times. I also used to RV blind using coordinates others had used from a book and then would compare my results. I put both my children and a friend of theirs who used to live with us throu the bilocation program I did and they were all good at it (my kids were always more gifted then me at things and natural clairvoyants whereas I arent). They.. the 3 of them could go to a location and all see the same thing!. I had them stop doing it after they all had a bad experience out of it which left them all very upset.
The only difference with RV and OBE at times can be that during a RV one is still aware of their physical body too and fully awake... and with some RV technique (what the gov people used) they see things often in symbols.
Some occultic schools taught something called "travelling clairvoyance" as a precurser to astral projection. The one (Ingo Swann) who the gov people studied and worked with to develop their RV program was someone who did travelling clairvoyance (the precurser of RV). They had to develop something suitable for those not naturally clairvoyant. So there is a big link between these two things. (the book I recently recommended by Denning and Phillips, teaches travelling clairvoyance before astral projection).
HAGART wrote: And feel free to share any other anecdotes about possible Remote Viewings you have had in the past,
I have a hint for people, something I learnt when I was working on RV in the past. If you are trying an RV and see something which isnt making any sense.. try to move back from it.
I had a couple of experiences in the past where the object I was trying to RV I'd only see a wee part of it, it turned out I'd been too close to it and had I moved back. I would of seen exactly what it was.
eg I was doing a blind RV using coordinates and clearly saw this small patch of orange and brown pattern. I didnt have a clue what it was. It turned out thou the target was a giraffee and I was seeing a patch of its coat.
Same thing happened to me one time when I RVed I think was a train blind (once again using a coordinate). I see this metal thing.. turned out I must of had my head in the mechanics of the engine so couldnt figure out it was a train.
Anyway.. my hint is to move yourself back some if you are seeing something and it isnt making sense as you may be looking at a wee section of what you are trying to RV.
HAGART wrote: Let's please stick to playing cards. If you don't have any in your house then I must ask.... what planet are you from?, :lol:
If one does happen to live on Mars and have no playing cards.. try ripping a random page out of a magazine you have never read and putting that up on a wardrobe top. Then try to read it and see what its about.
One of my psi teachers when he was trying to teach me the travelling clairvoyance form (not the bilocation merkabah form with that one).. what he used to do to try to practice.. he'd get to stand in a doorway and while not looking, throw some marbles into a room. Then I had to try to send my energy to go and see where they were (I never succeded with that one!).
Anyway.. I guess you could roll a group of marbles around the top of your wardrobe and then try to astral project to see what colours ended up where up there.
HAGART wrote: Also, the longer you look at something in a lucid dream, the more you'll see. It just changes sometimes and especially when you look away and then back again at it. I even tried blinking in a lucid dream and the object (a clock) changed as fast as I blinked. Not only the time, but it became every clock I've ever known. A digital-clock-radio, a grandfather clock, even that one of the black and white cat with the eyes that tick-tock side to side from pop-culture... if you know the one.
Yeah those clocks! I guess thou this looking away and looking back at a card would be good check while in the state still for someone to try to work out if they are in a dream or a OBE.
HAGART wrote: The deck I am using now is battered with crease marks. I have already thought of that, and if I am to take this seriously I should get a fresh one.
When I was fairly young, I had zeiner cards (I was trying to work on psychic skills before I was even an adult.. haha that didnt help me much!). I was playing around with them with other kids and this girl, she kept on getting them all right. She had us all completely amazed by her psi ability (well so we thought). It turned out she'd very quickly memorised all those cards by their creases and little marks!
Summerlander wrote: Thanks. Yeah. It's based on one of my experiences. I tried to capture the hyperrealism of my dream hands. The sharpness of the environment was incredible, the colours were great. The card fluctuated with many symbols until the Seven of Clubs was coherent (just about). 8-)
Wow that painting is great. I didnt realise you did it.
HAGART wrote: I checked the card.
It wasn't a card at all, but a thin strip of paper with a big, red number 3:[/color] 3I looked at the paper more and it was larger now with more drawings on it. I saw two drawings of cards, both small, about the size of my thumb. They were 10's, but the suit was hard to tell. It was a lot like the drawing of "Seven of Clubs". There were many clubs and spades all over the two drawings and different sizes. (They were all black however).
When I woke up, I went with my first vision and thought it must be a red 3. But if it's a black 10 that would be noteworthy too. I was wrong. It was the 7 of hearts.
If you really see it, you should really see it clearly as a card and clearly see what it is. All the morphing is just signs of being in a dream state.
I dont know about others but I know when I have an OBE, it tends to be extremely stable. Stable as real life.
HAGART wrote: The heavier an object is in them the harder time I have telekinetically moving it. My own self doubt stops me. Like Luke Skywalker trying to lift the X-wing fighter. He thinks it's too big and heavy and says he'll give it a try. "Try not," Yoda says, "Do... or do not. There is no try." Yoda knows it's all in our heads and does it easily. Wise words we can all remember when trying to use 'The Force' in lucid dreams. (Or anything else for that matter in dreams and in life....)
Thanks. Your post give me a new dream challenge to add to my long list. I want to see if I can pick a house up or will mind blocks stop me?