moon as clock
I realized by accident (again) that I was dreaming. This time it had a vividness/3D. (My first one was more like a movie). Anyway, Ya, I'm new also. Well, This one was quite um, quick and unreal, (by unreal I mean real). It started out I was riding a motorcycle, I don't even own a motorcycle. I pulled up to a building, I don't know where or what. I tried to put it on the stand; but, I could do it, finally I got it to stay up on it own. I got off the motorcycle and I noticed the chain on the motorcycle spocket? :? when I did. I reach down to touch it because it looked so real. When I did. It fell of the sprocket. :shock: I realized. :shock: This is a dream :shock: I looked around and I saw horizon to horizon fields of grass, I guess grass. It was green but dark green, I could see the green in/on the ground. rolling hills. It was dusk/dawn. The sky was dark blue. My vision started getting blurry on the peripheral of my vision, (both sides) and the blurriness started moving inward. I felt like something was happening. I did not want the dream to end, so I started trying to look around to get rid of the approaching blurriness. all the sudden I saw the moon in the sky, except it was a clock. Not a digital; but, a regular clock. It had no hands, just the numbers, the face of a clock with no hands. It was silver/white with black numbers w/ no hands. Up in the sky that was dark blue, the sky seemed to illuminated by the light of the clock moon. By the light of the clock moon. (sounds like a song, "by the light of the silverery clock moon"). ha ha
Although you don't ride a motorbike in real life, I'm sure you have ridden plenty of bicycles. You were probably moving around in the dream without walking and where almost lucid already which formed the 'bike'. Then you realized you were dreaming, and your mind made sense of it. (I must be riding a bike that moves on it's own), and what is the best example of that based on your memories of bicycles? A motor bike. Ask yourself what it truly looked like in the dream and I bet it was an amalgamation.
You knew you were dreaming and good going, noticing your vision change and notice the fine details like that in your peripheral vision. I think that may have been because you were close to waking up.
I bet it was at a time when you were close to waking up, and deep down, you may have wondered what time it was, as we most do when we first wake up. That would explain the clock in the sky that took the form of the moon.
With the details I got from you, that is my attempt at a dream interpretation. As you will here constantly, I need to disclaim that I am no expert, and just giving my two cents for what it's worth.
The motorcycle is a good thing. It means that you travel on two feet. This refers to the fact that there are two and only two primitive branches of reasoning, of language. You apparently like first hand experience with what is said. You got to a point on solid feet, two solid means of transportation, but your examinations are destroying that fact. You cannot, of your own, resolve a conflict between them. You are looking for help. This method of traveling is what powers you through your environment.
the moon, is a prophet. During the famine of the word, or the night time of man, the prophet reflects the light of the sun, therefore, it has no hands. Hands represent human will, what you can do. It is a reminder also, that the relationship between both branches of reasoning, through all time, only reflect the light, they have no hands, no will of their own. In reality, these two means of traveling through life is the real prophet. Many metaphors actually point to a single concept.
The fact that the chain came off the sprocket when you looked at it, means that you are having doubts between what powers the wheels. You cannot, by yourself, figure out the relationship between them, you do not understand how they stand on their own, and in pairs, Logic and Analogic, words and experience. In order to change your condition, you just might have to take a good look at the moon.
Now, don't become confused with religion as you know it. The metaphors of the Judeo-Christian Book actually all have biological and factual origins.
Lucid Dreams are an analog language. To learn about the principles of language and why it is what it is, you might rummage through some of my work, that is, if you have the time and are really want a hint.
https://archive.org/search.php?query=johnclark8659&sort=-publicdate
Many people arrive at lucid dreaming through a rational process, but the experiences make them question the whole foundation of their psychology. And, many cannot resolve the conflict.
Your experience was no accident. You were being told what you need to know, and how to solve the conflict. But pay careful attention. What language branch were you told with? Lucid Dreams are analogical. Analogic. The entire power of logic, of common grammar, of reasoning and of mind, comes from your ability to simply say what you see. To abstract the similar idea in the many examples. This does not change no matter how difficult it gets, and is true through all time and space. In our waking life, we have to use it all day long. And, we can increase that power through practicing in the Lucid Dream state, however, you may come to realize, that it has a teacher specifically for you.
The single wheel that is powered by the engine is analogic, the other gets its power from it. Together they stand as one. Many people never arrive at that metaphor in their lessons because they are not yet ready to comprehend it. Many have it, but do not know what to make of it. You are never taught the power of analogic in school, nor that both branches of reasoning are interdependent, for example, logic guides your path, but without analogic, it has no power.
Now that you know something of the relationship between language branches, perhaps you will understand why the language of choice for more advanced intelligence is analogic. Most people believe that the ability to turn a powerless wheel in any direction is arguing, that is logic. I have to laugh at that.
Another fault you should be aware of, You mind does not teach your mind. Secondly, language, in of itself, has no meaning. Meaning is an act of will. It is what your teacher means to convey to you.
There are two fundamentally distinct methods of teaching also. If you have ever read the Platonic Dialogs, Plato, for the most part does not tell you what to think, he does show you the connections, and it is up to the reader to find the path, quite the opposite of Aristotle. For example, you may have been told that in the Republic, Plato created his version of a Utopia, but if one actually paid attention to what was said, and what the goal was, he created the worst hell he could imagine. I knew it made me sick. To put the best of people in the worst situation imaginable such that gods and men would not suspect it. Plato admitted he did not fool the gods, but history has proven, he did fool man. The greatest protector of wealth is one who can steal it right in front of your face. Listen to the dialog. He wrote it to demonstrate where justice resides in any society, and he did it, the reader themselves. A masterpiece. It goes unrecognized today as the greatest Greek tragedy ever written, and it was written in the history of mankind, just like the Judeo-Christian Scripture.
I have read references to dream images of the full moon as being a metaphor for for the reflective mind, which is able to observe and analyse many aspects of thought and emotion.
Years ago, I had a dramatic dream about being caught up in a great flood, (I was experiencing a "flood" of challenging emotions during that period of my life). Floating serenely in the dark sky above this troubling dream scene was a shining full moon. When I awoke, I had a "gut" feeling that this moon symbolized a wise, stable, reflective part of my mind, calming observing the anxious aspects of my dream mind.
In some writings by the psychiatrist Carl Jung, dream images of an analog clock face are suggested to represent a form of a circular mandala, a symbol of the deep, wise, awareness, the Higher Self, which organizes the psyche and subtly guides the individual's life patterns. If a dream contains a clock with hands approaching 11 or 12 o'clock, this might symbolize that the time of some important event may be in the near future.
I'm not sure what a clock with numbers but no hands may represent. - Perhaps something to do with a feeling that the forward energy of life events is somehow being impaired?
Regarding the motorcycle chain - the function of the chain is to transfer power from the (hidden) combustion in the engine to the outer world drive wheel. If this chain fell off of the dream motorcycle, perhaps this is a metaphor for a problem with moving some aspect of life energy from its deep source out into productive manifestation in daily life.
Or perhaps the awareness behind the dreaming simply created this sudden, unexpected action to stimulate the practice of lucidity in the dream.
Best wishes - jasmine2
jasmine2 wrote: Years ago, I had a dramatic dream about being caught up in a great flood, (I was experiencing a "flood" of challenging emotions during that period of my life).
Actually, I would suspect that the image is one that you are told what it means, in the JCS.
Many nations, people.
And, also, Moses parting the waters. It symbolizes mankind, in his current state of development, or rather, human psychology. You live immersed in a world culture that you subjectively identify with. The moon, is that which reflects the light during the darkness of mankind. The Moon is a prophet, but then, you misunderstand what that even means, because of your enculturation.
It may have been a prophecy about you. So, it was not for the moment, but would come to pass at some point in your life.
The problem with dream interpretation is that there is no concrete answer that satisfies all people. If you were an astronaut who went to the moon 30 years ago and long for adventure again in your life, the moon in your dream would have an entirely different meaning. If you have a telescope and are mapping the moon in your back yard as an amature astronomer that too would make a difference. If you are a fisherman who relies on the tides, that will affect the meaning in your dream as well.
The context in which an event or object occurs in a dream is important too. What happened just before or after seeing the moon as a clock should be taken into account. Or a flood, or any other occurrence in a dream. It's not so simple.
Only the dreamer can decide the meaning and even then they are guessing.
That's why I hardly ever do dream interpretations (except my own), but felt like taking a stab at this one. I'm saying you're ALL wrong! But so am I. ;)
HAGART wrote: The problem with dream interpretation is that there is no concrete answer that satisfies all people. If you were an astronaut who went to the moon 30 years ago and long for adventure again in your life, the moon in your dream would have an entirely different meaning. If you have a telescope and are mapping the moon in your back yard as an amature astronomer that too would make a difference. If you are a fisherman who relies on the tides, that will affect the meaning in your dream as well.
The context in which an event or object occurs in a dream is important too. What happened just before or after seeing the moon as a clock should be taken into account. Or a flood, or any other occurrence in a dream. It's not so simple.
Only the dreamer can decide the meaning and even then they are guessing.
That's why I hardly ever do dream interpretations (except my own), but felt like taking a stab at this one. I'm saying you're ALL wrong! But so am I. ;)
I would agree with you except, analog language is demonstrable, not only the Basic Analog Mathematics I have been demonstrating, but demonstrating the principles of language itself. I will grant you this, the human race is very, very young in its ability to comprehend analog language. I have, however, found that just like Logic, such as common grammar, there are universal symbols, and symbols particular to one's own experience. One can find universal symbols mentioned in the JCS, personal ones, no one can comprehend, generally, save the person themselves. And also like logic, one can only comprehend it to their own ability to see the similar idea in the many examples.
If you're talking about Carl Jung's Collective Unconscious and Archetypes, I agree. There is a blueprint upon which we are all based. How far does it go, and when does personal experience take over? It's a very fine line.
I do believe dreams are almost entirely metaphor, and in fact, deep down, every thought is, as you say, analogic, before it is ever put into words.
I actually agree with you, I think, Philosopher. We just speak different languages when we try to express our thoughts on a computer with these things called, 'words'.
HAGART wrote: If you're talking about Carl Jung's Collective Unconscious and Archetypes, I agree. There is a blueprint upon which we are all based. How far does it go, and when does personal experience take over? It's a very fine line.
I do believe dreams are almost entirely metaphor, and in fact, deep down, every thought is, as you say, analogic, before it is ever put into words.
I actually agree with you, I think, Philosopher. We just speak different languages when we try to express our thoughts on a computer with these things called, 'words'.
I speak from personal experience. At one point, I was asking question and getting answers I could not possible have.
Analog comes from analogy. I am still working on ironing it all out. However, if you want to see the relation ship between logos and analogos https://archive.org/details/AUniversalLanguage
The essay The Truth of It. You will be shown how it follows from the foundation of language itself.
This is not quite off tangent for this thread because I believe it's all connected and always worth while if the discussion is informative.
I prefer simple ways to explain things. I feel this video is a great way to explain what I'm talking about, and I think, you as well. This might be very dumbed down for you Philosopher, since you and your writings are over my Sesame Street head. I feel this sums up what you have been trying to say in a clever 'explanimation':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_wAtQm4bNI&index=24&list=PLuz7RUvtFdHKi4BiJTyvCS1pFgBsfHlLI
- "New Scientist"
HAGART wrote: This is not quite off tangent for this thread because I believe it's all connected and always worth while if the discussion is informative.
I prefer simple ways to explain things. I feel this video is a great way to explain what I'm talking about, and I think, you as well. This might be very dumbed down for you Philosopher, since you and your writings are over my Sesame Street head. I feel this sums up what you have been trying to say in a clever 'explanimation':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_wAtQm4bNI&index=24&list=PLuz7RUvtFdHKi4BiJTyvCS1pFgBsfHlLI
- "New Scientist"
You are quite right. Someone is closer to it than I imagined. However, it is not a new concept, it is just the foundation of actually being linguistic. Language. It was put into words by Plato, as the ability to see the similar idea in the many examples, and demonstrated in the Judeo-Christian Scripture by its method of construction. What you get when you use the logic, is interpretations which can only be commensurate with a persons experience. By fact then, words become time locked until the experience required for it is acquired, thus you get prophecy. It is only a method of communicating to the limits of a persons ability. Until the experience is acquired, then one only has imagination which often runs wild.
This is what I was taught through not only lucid dreaming, but visions as well. I quit both practices examining how it all fit together, and it all fits at the foundation of language itself. This is how I came to understand that Lucid Dreaming is not only a language, but a form of psychotherapy being used, but not by man. A wise man once said, the Law and the Prophets prophesize until John. The name John means, one who is acceptable unto the Lord, or actually, one who thinks by definition. Definition of a thing proves the duality and simultaneous functionality of Logic and Analogic. Eventually, one understands, unlike the presentation you sent me to, that thinking is not one or the other, but both simultaneously, Logic and Analogic function as cross indexing. Until one comes to understand, they believe a host of different things about lucid dreams. That they are interacting with their own subconscious, which actually violates the term subconscious, other believe in spirits and supernatural beings. But the mind can only do language, and it is learning how to speak.
HAGART wrote: The problem with dream interpretation is that there is no concrete answer that satisfies all people. If you were an astronaut who went to the moon 30 years ago and long for adventure again in your life, the moon in your dream would have an entirely different meaning.
Yes and no. All symbols can carry personal representations to them based on the persons own experiences and thinking but many symbols at the same time can also carry universal meaning eg a moon will always be able to represent for anyone the lighting up of darkness (even if they aren't aware of this possible meaning as this is what in life they do experience happening so its something programmed into subconsciousness connected to "moon") and running somewhere may represent to anyone of us being in a hurry even to a famous marathon runner or someone who is wheelchair bound still knows the concept that people run to get somewhere faster.
If it wasn't for universal symbols, we wouldn't have much hope in trying to work out others dream meanings. Often I've found a symbol will carry both universal meaning as well as personal (I've had many of my dreams with double meanings both correct based on these things).
We can find ourselves using any mode of transport in a dream even if we have never experienced it before, experience of it before isn’t at all necessarily to be able to dream about it. What we find ourselves riding tells us something about our life or ourselves.
Motorbikes are an easier way to travel through a life or a life experience then having to walk.
I got off the motorcycle and I noticed the chain on the motorcycle spocket? when I did. I reach down to touch it because it looked so real. When I did. It fell of the sprocket.”
Maybe you’ve had some fairly smooth sailing with something in your life one could say (eg motor bike) and have stopped doing something (stopped progress with motor bike) but now that you’ve stopped, something has changed and its going to be hard to move forward with that thing again unless you "fix" the situation or find a new way around the issue. (the next part of the dream may indicate you do just that)
I looked around and I saw horizon to horizon fields of grass, I guess grass. It was green but dark green, I could see the green in/on the ground. rolling hills
Healthy green grass makes me think of good growth in an area of your life (it could be of growth of healthy knowledge)...
The moon is something which reflects, it lights up darkness hence I’d see this as a good symbol as it can represent new learning or understanding taking place. Some things may be suddenly making more sense.
It was dusk/dawn
I think that if that dream had continued and you had not woken up, it was probably dawn which would of fit with this dreams symbols. New awakenings (eg new knowledge or a new beginning.. I'll guess new understandings due to your other symbols in this dream)
I felt like something was happening. I did not want the dream to end, so I started trying to look around to get rid of the approaching blurriness. all the sudden I saw the moon in the sky, except it was a clock. Not a digital; but, a regular clock
I took are wondering if the clock came into things on that thought due to it being “time to wake up”
taniaaust1 wrote: a moon will always be able to represent for anyone the lighting up of darkness
I hate to nitpick, but you can see the moon during the day.
HAGART wrote:
taniaaust1 wrote:a moon will always be able to represent for anyone the lighting up of darkness
I hate to nitpick, but you can see the moon during the day.
OMG HAGART.. we have enough thinkers at this site in which one has to be sooo very careful how things are put already or be pulled up on it. :lol: (nitpick away). I'm going to choose to ignore this comment thou :lol:
It can be frustrating if we have to be careful of EVERYTHING we say for fear of being wrong, I know.
Missy now has 4 well thought out interpretations from 4 people and can take or leave what they choose. It reveals a lot to me though and how our minds work. We 4 could all stare up at a blue sky with a single cloud and each see a different figure in it.
Is it a dragon? A butterfly? Popcorn? Or is it just condensed water vapor that formed droplets in the sky?
(I'm guilty of thinking too much ain't I? :ugeek: )
HAGART wrote: It can be frustrating if we have to be careful of EVERYTHING we say for fear of being wrong, I know.
Missy now has 4 well thought out interpretations from 4 people and can take or leave what they choose. It reveals a lot to me though and how our minds work. We 4 could all stare up at a blue sky with a single cloud and each see a different figure in it.
Is it a dragon? A butterfly? Popcorn? Or is it just condensed water vapor that formed droplets in the sky?
(I'm guilty of thinking too much ain't I? :ugeek: )
Maybe people who are into lucid dreaming think more then others in general? (there, that's something else now to think about).
Yeah Missy has 4 well thought answers but no one will probably be scoring any browny points of possible correctness with Missy as she's probably long gone seeing her post was on the 18th of last month and we haven't heard from her since.
We now all have been left to wonder who maybe got the closest to what her thoughts and feelings on it may of been. (its always good when someone gives some feedback as it helps to see what one may of missed).
We'll just have to wait and see who 'wins'. ;)
Did anyone notice that it was an analog clock? And that it had no hands, just numbers. Analogic and logic, both reflecting (reflection is perception) for the purpose of behavior through all time.
The Lucid Dream is for the particular person, the purpose is ones own mental development.
The dream is about her future, perhaps decades down the road. It is about her own mind, that someday she will know truth as reflected through both branches of reasoning.
Having no hands, an analog found also in the JCS. It is actually a puzzle. The serpent had no hands, then a prophet will be slain without hand, and "Not my will, but the will of my Father." etc.
When you learn to think in truth, then it means the same as doing one's will in truth, or in analog, the will of God. A = A, the image. If it is true, this is a very unusual person indeed.
All of the elements of the dream are pointing to a single concept. The relationship between mind and language. This is how Lucid Dreams become known as a language. Few can see the single idea in the many examples. I take it as evidence of communication because it is unlikely that the mind is trying to teach itself, just as unlikely as the eyes see themselves.
I'm trying out a new form of interpretation I've been reading about, based more on **repeating theme **words people use when they post and seeing where this dream leads with that. Seeing if I'll came up with same interpretation meaning as before by focusing instead of the writing and the expression of the person for interpretation.
missy wrote: Anyway, Ya, I'm new also. Well, This one was quite um, quick and unreal, (by unreal I mean real). It started out I was riding a motorcycle, I don't even own a motorcycle. I pulled up to a building, I don't know where or what. I tried to put it on the stand; but, I could do it, finally I got it to stay up on it own. I got off the motorcycle and I noticed the chain on the motorcycle spocket? :? when I did. I reach down to touch it because it looked so real. When I did. It fell of the sprocket. :shock: I realized. :shock: This is a dream :shock: I looked around and I saw horizon to horizon fields of grass, I guess grass. It was green but dark green, I could see the green in/on the ground. rolling hills. It was dusk/dawn. The sky was dark blue. My** vision started getting blurry **on the peripheral of my vision, (both sides) and the blurrinessstarted moving inward. I felt like something was happening. I did not want the dream to end, so I started trying to look around to get rid of the approaching blurriness. all the sudden I saw the moon in the sky, except it was a clock. Not a digital; but, a regular clock. It had no hands, just the numbers, the face of a clock with no hands. It was silver/white with black numbers w/ no hands. Up in the sky that was dark blue, the sky seemed to illuminated by the light of the clock moon. By the light of the clock moon. (sounds like a song, "by the light of the silverery clock moon"). ha ha
... "started moving inward" thou she was talking about blurriness and started to loose the dream, the interpretation method I'm trying to use takes everything expressed as possible a separate meaning then the whole sentence the person used, so in this case.. this "started moving inward.. could express "reflection" (so we get the reflection not just of the moon) ..
Looking at her dream in the way I am now, it looks to be about "illumination" and self inner growth change thought reflection From blurriness and darkness (word dark appeared quite a bit) to light/illumination. Things becoming clear.
Lots of words about seeing and how she is seeing.. field could refer to "field" of vision too. It's interesting that how she's seeing is referred to about 15 times in this on short dream. Looking at the words, the message comes across quite strongly. .......
I'll put this with my other interpretation " Healthy green grass makes me think of good growth in an area of your life (it could be of growth of healthy knowledge)... "
So I think now the growth referred too in this is inner self growth of herself.
" something has changed and its going to be hard to move forward with that thing again unless you "fix" the situation or find a new way around the issue"
Its going to be herself, she's going to fix and move forward with.
"I think that if that dream had continued and you had not woken up, it was probably dawn which would of fit with this dreams symbols. New awakenings (eg new knowledge or a new beginning.. I'll guess new understandings due to your other symbols in this dream)"
I'm changing what I said about this using this other method of interpretation which would mean her saying both dusk and dawn is both important and supposed to be. I think the use of these words now show what the dream is about.. going from dusk in her self knowledge to dawn (new awareness). The dusk representing where she is at now with this growth.
"I saw the moon in the sky, except it was a clock."
The self reflection comes with time?
I pulled up to a building, I don't know where or what.
She's got no idea where she's at right now with things, the knowledge isn't there currently.
I reach down to touch it because it looked so real
unreal, (by unreal I mean real)
She has confusion about reality, what is real and what is unreal though subconsciously she knows what appears unreal can be real and what appears real can be unreal. The dream is about inner self knowledge and perception of reality. This is a spiritual dream.
I'm going to agree with what philosopher said when he said " It is about her own mind, that someday she will know truth" ..........
I didn't comment on colour meanings at all with this dream.. green is the colour of growth, blue is the colour of spiritual/peace/calmness ..and white is the colour of all colours coming together as one (so too can represent illumination/oneness. (and silver is often quite reflective).