Killing Dream Characters
Ive been thinking about this for awhile...Is killing DC's bad? The way I have looked at this is that you are actually killing parts of your subconscious....making projections from your mind vanish. I don't know exactly. If anyone has any good advice to explain a little bit of this to me, please let me know.
You will find plenty of people on here who will say it's nothing, but I believe killing a DC isn't much different then killing a person in waking life. So it is very bad. This is just my belief though.
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You're not 'really' killing anyone or anything. It's just an intense visualisation - an "active imagining" as Carl Jung would probably have put it. Think about those dreams where someone kills you and you wake up or have an out-of-body experience in the dream. You still live.
When it comes to dream people they are not real. They are characters conjured up in your mind. Robert Waggoner has a good term: "dream figures".
A figure can take up any shape or form. I've had plenty of death and darkness in my dreams and I'm still of sound mind (I think, LOL). One can even use killing in lucid dreams as a way to release tension and relieve stress.
That's my two cents, anyway...
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Thanks for the input guys!
One thing i wanted to clarify (in my opinion) was that, in a sense, the subconscious is projecting emotions/wants in the form of people that come into your lucid dream. And thus, killing the people in your dream is like killing those "emotions" from your subconscious.
Thanks ~ Meow
Its all in eye of the beholder, if I get into a dream that is seeded by the fact that I have a flu or some illness and I want to see the germs and get rid of them they may appear as a DC and I will kill them to help with healing.
I have said this before and that is when the dream ends then all the DC's are dead unless you think that they exist all time.
How you feel about what you do is the issue
I also don't think killing dream figures in lucid dreams is killing emotions and subconscious desires if indeed they represent that.
I'd say you are merely erasing "expressions" in the dream world, but, the trigger, or source, lives on for as long as it needs to. If you kill a dream person that represents jealousy of someone in waking like, you might still feel jealous and this jealousy may manifest a different representation in a different dream (or even the same one) thus giving you another opportunity to understand where your feelings are coming from if you decide to probe the dream character.
I'd also like to state that one can feel much better after having killed in a dream. I'll go with Peter on this one and say that it all depends on how you view your experiences. But killing emotions? No. You may change them due to how the dream event might influence your stream of thought, or they might remain the same.
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Summerlander wrote: I also don't think killing dream figures in lucid dreams is killing emotions and subconscious desires if indeed they represent that.
I'd say you are merely erasing "expressions" in the dream world, but, the trigger, or source, lives on for as long as it needs to. If you kill a dream person that represents jealousy of someone in waking like, you might still feel jealous and this jealousy may manifest a different representation in a different dream (or even the same one) thus giving you another opportunity to understand where your feelings are coming from if you decide to probe the dream character.
I'd also like to state that one can feel much better after having killed in a dream. I'll go with Peter on this one and say that it all depends on how you view your experiences. But killing emotions? No. You may change them due to how the dream event might influence your stream of thought, or they might remain the same.
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It's nothing major, and nothing to get defensive about, just something I noticed. You say killing DCs can help you feel better, I don't doubt it! Killing people in waking life would give you that same good feeling too ;)
See the issue? It's never healthy to kill anything. Plus, ANYTHING can make you feel better, instead of killing people go work out or something haha.
This is a care free and light response, I understand you guys think killing is perfectly fine!
(I think this goes along the lines of, some people think it's ok to slaughter animals because they are "lesser" then us. I wouldn't be surprised if the people who support DC killing also support animal testing, animal slaughter and abuse! But then again, I just wouldn't be surprised. I'm not saying all people who support DC killing have no respect for animals and think it's ok to do those things to animals)
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not getting defensive about anything. I do work out but it doesn't compare to killing in dreams. Working out can make you tired and cause pain (no pain no gain lol). Killing in dreams makes me feel like I'm in control and powerful; it is also taboo in real life (murder) and the dream presents you with opportunities to do what you can't, shouldn't, or wouldn't in real life. I find it exciting that lucid dreaming gives the opportunity to explore new behaviours.
In saying all of the above, I am also a meat eater and would kill animals both to survive and for palatal pleasure. This, however, does not mean I don't value them (if I like to eat them and feel that I need them in my life then I must value them). The fact that I kill in dreams doesn't mean I wouldn't do the humane thing and kill animals in real life as quickly and as painless as possible. It is, after all, a dog eat dog world so to speak. Or lion eat zebra... Lol!
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okay, so here's the thing. at least my thing. no not that thing. ;)
i'm pretty certain that you really can't tell whether it's something bad, or not. or better: in my opinion you can't generalize it - everybody has to know/decide for himself or herself. (also it's depends on the situation)
explanations via examples:
case 1: you dream of killing somebody or something for no comprehensible reason (or maybe because in that dream you even enjoy it). what i think about that: i'd try to figure out where this idea came from. like working on questions like: what is bugging me, that my subconscious decided to deal with it this way? there must be something that i'm afraid of (even when i did it for fun) - what is it?
case 2: it's a nightmare. something is threatening you or maybe something (or someone) you like. finally you kill the enemy. what i think about that: depending on how it feels i'd say that's definitely nothing to worry about, because to me thats a way of solving problems. in waking life, when you manage to sort out a problem, you could metaphorically say you "killed" the problem. i see dreams as the language of the subconsciousness - and it loves to talk in metaphors (you could say we're all poets). so killing something in a dream, can be like getting rid of something you're struggling with. bere aware that putting somthing (or someone) to death, the problem does not have to be solved. but if that killing was an act of supression, your subconscious will still find a way to express what it has to say. so i don't think it can do you any significant psychological harm.
but afterall i think that killing DCs is almost always a waste of time. why should you do it? why not decide not to do it but instead work on that thought right inside that dream - it's a great opportunity to find out what's bugging you. don't forget: technically you're hanging out with your subconscious. for example ask the dream if there is anything bothering you and if, what it is. also (if there is something) you can straight forward ask the dream for some advice how to solve it in a healthy way. check this: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/lucid-dream-self.html
once (when i was a kid and had no idea lucid dreaming had a name) i dreamt about something evil chasing me. i knew it would harm me, if it reached me. while running i realized i was dreaming so i instantly stoppped, turned around and yelled: "stop!". i angrily walked toward the demon-thing, telling it to finally calm down and stop scaring me. i was still afraid but that fear somehow pushed me and gave me the strength to stand up against it and acting like: "i'm the boss here, stop it!" i can't remember everything but i somehow went to a semi-lucid state and the monster has turned into a teddybear. we were sitting next to each other, talking about what's going on. i remember asking it something like: "why did you chase me before? why do you want to hurt me?" i also remember having tears in my eyes at that point. it felt like a very intimate and honest conversation with myself. i'm 100% not sure what the teddy's responded but he told me that he's not trying to hurt me, but rather looking for help. when he said that, i suddenly felt his pain. i hugged him and told him that everything is gonna be okay and that i'll hear him out.
back then, i didn't REALLY find out what the problem was but it was a very special dream which made me feel happy and more self-conscious for many days. what i want to say is that i could have killed the demon but i'm glad i didn't decide to do it. i don't think it would have been THAT productive.
sometimes its like eating a cake, you know you have had enough but its just good to eat and eat and eat. Its not what you always do but at times so what. Anyway some good thoughts here in this thread
Killing DC is fun! Its not bad, they are just DCs!
If it were someone truly evil I would agree with you, but not when it's innocents. Character or no, no innocent deserves to die.
I don't think you can really kill a dream character. Dcs are just figures of you imagination on a plane that is not real. You can kill and kill and it won't make much of a difference to you (unless you worry for hours why you are killing so much in a dream) it's not like the dream police will arrest you for dc abuse :lol:
I treat killing a dream character just as much as I treat a real person dying. I mourn the innocent and pity the evil.
NOCOOKIEFORYOU wrote: I don't think you can really kill a dream character. Dcs are just figures of you imagination on a plane that is not real. You can kill and kill and it won't make much of a difference to you (unless you worry for hours why you are killing so much in a dream) it's not like the dream police will arrest you for dc abuse :lol:
I agree but I wouldnt kill an innocent helpless DC that I have no reason to kill or any of my dream friends. However I have lots of fun killing or even just fighting my dream villains and evil monsters. As for the dream police, they wont come unless you listen to Cheap Trick :lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4FwJdBb6_M
Exactly my point. In the dream I was having I tried saving this specific one, but an evil character forced her to attack me, which in turn forced me to kill her. It was self defense but inexcusable none the less.
AceOfSpades wrote: Exactly my point. In the dream I was having I tried saving this specific one, but an evil character forced her to attack me, which in turn forced me to kill her. It was self defense but inexcusable none the less.
You could always revive her you know. ;)
It wouldn't be the same. Besides mine aren't as simple as the others'. While I do recall what I see and hear inside the lucids, control is a different story. I couldn't revive her and even if I could it wouldn't be the same person I tried to save. It's like what Hagart said once about how his character after it came back wasn't exactly the same one he met before.
I did the next best thing though. While I was in that world I went after the bastard that forced her to attack me. If I couldn't bring her back the least I could do would avenge her.
OMG I'm gonna nuke and kill all my dc's.
btifuldreamer wrote: OMG I'm gonna nuke and kill all my dc's.
Thats my next LD goal : Initiate the cold war :D
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Its a good idea to be kind to your dream characters. Killing them won't necessarily 'harm' your brain, like destroying parts of your mind. As Dom Kobb from 'Inception' said, "No, they're just projections." But you should be nice to them because they will be nicer to you. View your subconscious and conscious as two separate minds. It sounds weird, but that's kind of how it is. Your DC's will be more willing to assist you in lucid dreaming and other various things you may want to do, such as attempting a Dream Character Induced Lucid Dream.
Killing DC's? For fun? I never really thought about it that way. Like on a video game when you get bored and just slaughter everyone in sight just because nothing can harm you? I've never felt like killing my DC's just because, but I'm not against it either because it's not bad.
If you say that by killing people on a video game or whatever the like will make you more violent then you've lost all my respect. We humans have a consciousness. We know what's good or bad, what's right or wrong and doing something that's bad in an environment where it really doesn't mean anything wont change us, because can know the difference between a 3D model rendered by a computer or a hallucination created by our subconscious and breathing, thinking person.
Yes, you can't really prove this is the only reality, that we are the only ones that exist, but then again maybe we just don't exist.
What I'm saying is that in those "worlds" killing people doesn't really mean anything and shouldn't be seen as anything and that's their rule, but as long as you are in this world, you should follow its rules. And since in this world killing means actually something (to disappear and be never seen again) then it MUST be seen as something.
It's like getting naked. HERE it's completely inappropriate and indecent, but in dreams it's nothing.
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When it comes to video games, I am a killing machine. Real life regardless of how bad a person is, I would never. In the dream world on the other hand, if it was to defend myself or go against something in that world that is pure evil. The kid gloves come off. Especially when they use innocents against me.
I have only killed a DC once though. Maybe because I don't think killing is fun. Fighting, like martial arts, that is another story (playing around as karate kid is hilarious.) I have better things to do than killing. After all, I try overnatural things. Like flying, shooting fire from my hands, or transforming into an animal. I'm illegal in my LD's though. I go robbing choclate stores ;)
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well whats the point of shooting fire out of your hands if your not gonna kill. what good can come from that. maby killing beasts but still... animals count as DCs.
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AceOfSpades wrote: It wouldn't be the same. Besides mine aren't as simple as the others'. While I do recall what I see and hear inside the lucids, control is a different story. I couldn't revive her and even if I could it wouldn't be the same person I tried to save. It's like what Hagart said once about how his character after it came back wasn't exactly the same one he met before.
I did the next best thing though. While I was in that world I went after the bastard that forced her to attack me. If I couldn't bring her back the least I could do would avenge her.
You wont be able to revive any DCs if you think you wont. What one believes strongly influences LDs. Same as if you think the revived DC wont come back the same, it is very doubtful then that it would.
People impose so many limits/blocks onto their own LDs.
twice ive had dreams where (i had one last night) i will pull put a pathetic little knife (the first time was a pencil and last night i had a knife as big as mymiddle finger) and siy there stabing a person. at first they will figt back then after like 10 seconds or so they will stop and just take it. then they will jusy go back to what there doing and act like im not there. then after stabing for a long time over and over again nonstop(i realy want to kill them for some reason)they will kust say stop or what do yu want.i cant remember wich one they say. why do i want to kill them so bad
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I personally wouldn't dream about killing a DC (lol). I know they aren't REALLY there, but I'd probably go insane with guilt anyway, because I mean, isn't killing a DC almost the same as killing a real life person? Yes, yes, they're a part of your subconscious, but they talk, they have faces (well, some of them do), and they LOOK like real people. So I think if somebody can kill dream characters without feeling anything, there's something wrong with their head (unless that DC is hurting them etc).
I thought this was discussed all ready. Killing dream characters won't effect you unless you feel guilt ridden. There is nothing wrong with it
Once, I tried to kill a DC and she just smiled at me and nothing happened.
lol. :lol:
I've had dreams about killing DC's but usually only when they're trying to cause me harm, and sometimes they're evil. I don't just do it for fun though, there's always a pretty good reason. I do however remember one particularly disturbing dream about a serial killer who, at certain times in the dream, I took the role of. In this dream I didn't actually kill anyone, but I remember watching it happen and then having blood on my hands and clothes...I won't ever have a dream like that again if I can help it.
I suppose there is nothing "morally" wrong to killing in the dream, although I would never do such a thing.
Why? It's build neural pathways to further make you more violent. If something attacks you in a dream, don't handle it violently. You don't have to, so why would you? Solving problems with violence in lucid dreams makes you more likely to solve problems with violence in waking life. It's the same reason I don't like having dream sex.
It builds neural pathways to program your behavior!
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I think it might have some merit.
Exploring the concept of death, for example. Perhaps I'm projecting my own demons here, but I believe that everyone, to some degree, has a killer instinct. I don't think this has any bearing on the person - it's just animal nature...Jung called it Hintergedanken...the ulterior motive at the back of the mind that is always there to offer contrast.
For example:
Create a scenario where you can methodically, sadistically torture/rape/kill someone you could imagine doing this to.
Create a scenario where that person does the same to you, or where you can at least understand the opposite perspective and thus gain insight into your Self.
Create a scenario where you fight to the death with a dream character that is specifically designed to kill you.
etc.
Mindlessly killing DCs because you think 'i'm just dreaming' is really stupid, imo. It's little different from someone who mindlessly kills insects because 'they're just bugs'. And with little exception, people like that tend to have poor self control and limited ability to perceive consequence / understand their own motivations.
Causality doesn't stop working just because you're asleep. Imagine someone who compulsively has sex in dreams...it says a lot about that person's subconscious, and it won't do anything to improve their paraphilia during waking life. Probably the opposite.